Commander - EDH

[Splinterverse]

Any progress on changing how the AI chooses it's commander? In all the games I've been playing, the AI is choosing the wrong one. The AI is picking one with the correct mana symbols, but always the wrong one.

I think option 1 in the options presented earlier is probably the best bet. Option 2 doesn't allow for decks that are made but not shared. Option 3 is okay too, but I think option 1 is the cleanest and probably the easiest to maintain.

Also, for the shared EDH decks, I'm not sure how we will know which commander the creator of the deck intended. Maybe it needs to be in the deck name or something?

[Xander9009]

Any progress on changing how the AI chooses it's commander? In all the games I've been playing, the AI is choosing the wrong one. The AI is picking one with the correct mana symbols, but always the wrong one.

I think option 1 in the options presented earlier is probably the best bet. Option 2 doesn't allow for decks that are made but not shared. Option 3 is okay too, but I think option 1 is the cleanest and probably the easiest to maintain.

Also, for the shared EDH decks, I'm not sure how we will know which commander the creator of the deck intended. Maybe it needs to be in the deck name or something?

I'm actually planning to go with options 1 and 2, both. It'll read from a table which commander should be chosen, and if the deck doesn't match any in the table, then the first human player it comes across, starting with EffectController(), will choose.

Yeah, the name of the commander, or at least something related to its name, will likely need to go into the deck's name if they intend for the commander to never change. However, that said, any shared decks could be added to the table and thus negate the need to choose to begin with.

I've been kind of distracted, sorry. My roommate just had a job interview today, and that's kept us discussing various things through the last couple of days. We're actually heading out tonight, but I'll try to get these changes in tomorrow. Please feel free to remind me if I seem to forget, because it's not intentional...

[Xander9009]

These have been done.

Now, there's the possibility to designate a specific commander/commander pair for a deck. Doing so might be a bit complex, but if it's not something you want to do, you can at least fall back to humans always choosing commanders.

There is no circumstance in which an AI will make the choice. It will always be a human.

When there is no choice to be made because there is exactly one valid commander, that choice is made automatically. This does not cover partners.

In order to make a fingerprint for a deck, do the following:

1. Save the deck normally, and open the card list that the deck builder exported.
2. Copy the card list section to a text editor (or leave it there. Or whatever...).
3. Isolated just the card names. (Explained below.)
4. Copy the commander (or commanders) to the top of the list.
5. Make it match the following format.
   

   Code: Select all

   CW_Commander_RegisterAutoSelect(
   {"SLIVER_QUEEN"}, -- These brackets should contain either one or two commanders. (Two only in the case of partners.)
   {
      "ABSOLVER_THRULL", -- This list should be the card names from the deck.
      "ABZAN_ASCENDANCY",
      "AKKI_LAVARUNNER",
      "ASSASSINS_BLADE",
      "BLINKMOTH_URN",
      "BREEDING_POOL",
      "BUDOKA_GARDENER",
      "BUSHI_TENDERFOOT",
      "CHANDRA_TORCH_OF_DEFIANCE",
      "DEADLY_TEMPEST",
      "GREENWARDEN_OF_MURASA",
      "HORNET_NEST",
      "MOLDGRAF_MONSTROSITY",
      "NEZUMI_SHORTFANG",
      "UNDERWORLD_CERBERUS",
      "SLIVER_HIVELORD",
      "SLIVER_LEGION",
      "SLIVER_OVERLORD",
      "SLIVER_QUEEN"
   }   
)

6. Remove the comments. I don't know if they'll cause issues or not.
7. Save the file as "CW_COMMANDER_*DECKNAME*.LOL", where *DECKNAME* is replaced with the deck's name. This name isn't super important as long as it starts with "CW_COMMANDER_" and doesn't interfere with any others.
8. Upload the LOL file along with your deck.

In order to convert a card's filename (which is what appears in your card list) to its cardname, usually you can just remove the ending, which will either be numbers (in the case of vanilla cards), "_CW_###" in the case of most CW cards, or "_MM_CW_###" in the case of a many manual mana cards. Do not include basic lands or any duplicate cards. Do not include the commander land.

If your deck is being tested using either the Favor of the Gods card or the Energy of the Gods card, then those also shouldn't be included if you want the auto-selection to work during these tests.

There's currently no good method in place for dealing with the tables created this way, but in the future, I'll set it up so any lol files uploaded via the EDH deck upload folder will be moved to the main function folder so they'll work automatically.

Not all cards in the deck need to be included. The most important cards to include are the commander and some cards which are less likely than most to appear in other decks. Especially multiple cards that are unlikely to appear together very often. The idea is to compare the list of cards to the current deck. If every card in the list is found, then it sets the commander to whatever commander is named. If only three very common cards are provided, then it may match many decks, and thus mess those decks up by choosing the wrong commander.

If your deck only has one commander, then there's no reason to do this at all. If it has partners, then it might still be a good idea until I can figure out how to make partners auto-select any choices with no valid alternatives. Like if you're deck has Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder, Akiri, Line-Slinger, Vial Smasher the Fierce, and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, then it would ideally auto-select Vial Smasher the Fierce and only have you make the selection between the other two, since the vial smasher must be chosen. (Because you must have a commander identity consisting of white, black, and red. Grenzo could provide the black and red, but doesn't have partner and can't provide the white, and thus isn't valid at all.) It doesn't currently manage this, but it's the ultimate goal.

[error3]

The new commander auto-selection works great.

On my other issue, of the AI not being able to cast the commander, I was able to get a bit more information.

I created an EDH deck of just plains and Isamaru, Hound of Konda (cost 1 white) for the AI, so I could quickly determine if the not-casting bug was occurring.

I played the deck against several different commander decks, and the AI would cast Isamaru against half of them all of the time, but not against the other half ever.

For example, the AI would drop a plains and cast Isamaru every time against a deck using no commander, Mayael the Anima, Prossh, or another Isamaru. However, the AI would never cast Isamaru against Yidris, Sliver Queen, or Talrand.

I couldn't find any rhyme or reason as to why certain commander choices I made stopped the AI from casting theirs.

I tried making tweaks to the commander manager and even gutting all other behaviors the AI casting remained as described

Of note, the AI commander does display the "castable from exile" text even when the AI won't cast it.

Would love to hear thoughts on what might be causing this behavior.

[Xander9009]

I'm not certain why this is happening to you. I tried these same tests, and the AI cast Isamaru, Hound of Konda even when I had Sliver Queen or Yidris as my commander. Do you have any other mods installed?

[error3]

I have no other mods installed, just the community WAD and community EDH decks.
I have made a few deck wad files as well.

You're correct, it's not tied to the commander. I made a deck of just Yidris and the commander forest and Isamaru would get cast again. So moving some cards in/out can cause the behavior to change.

I'll see if I can track down the exact card that crosses over that causes this.

Thanks

Edit: It looks like adding Gitaxian Probe into one of the player decks causes the AI commander to stop casting Isamaru.

I had the commander island and Yidris, the AI could cast, I then added Gitaxian Probe and he could not.

Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise also cause this bug. It seems that adding cards with alternate mana costs are causing this.
Still seems weird that adding one of these cards to the player deck prevents the AI from playing their commander though.

[Finnical]

Fiend Hunter exiled my commander (Akiri Line Slinger) and when asked if I wanted her to go to the command zone I said yes. She did not, and was instead exiled underneath Fiend Hunter.

[ChrisDovahkiin]

Hey, I've downloaded all the EDH Decks and the Content Enabler.
I start a 1v1 FFA and choose EDH decks for both me and AI.

When the game starts, I am not asked to choose a Commander. Other than that, the match plays as usual, just without Commanders.

Did I do something wrong?

[Xander9009]

Hey, I've downloaded all the EDH Decks and the Content Enabler.
I start a 1v1 FFA and choose EDH decks for both me and AI.

When the game starts, I am not asked to choose a Commander. Other than that, the match plays as usual, just without Commanders.

Did I do something wrong?

Those decks, it appears, were never updated to use the newest method. They're still using the direct COMMANDER_MANAGER card method that was set up previously. I've updated the decks, replacing the COMMANDER_MANAGER cards with commander lands (basic lands set up with commander code). I tested the Sliver Queen one to be sure this was the issue, and it worked after this change. They've been updloaded and should all work now, hopefully.

[ChrisDovahkiin]

Many thanks! Seems to be working now.

I tested Sliver Queen vs Damia, me being Sliver, AI as Damia.

Sliver Queen worked perfectly, cast her three times.

I noticed that the AI had ample mana to cast Damia, but didn't, even choosing to cast 0 spells on some turns.


Just a couple (Non-EDH) questions in general, since you're the man with the most skill here.....

1. I made a custom token deck in Builder, and it runs like a charm, however the game maxed my tokens. I know it's max 100 per type, but once I maxed out 100 3/3, I was unable to produce more 2/2'S, even though I only had 24. And by unable, I mean I tapped a creature to produce a token and nothing happened. Is this just a game limitation?

2. I've got the Community WAD, but every now and then a downloaded deck comes up with missing cards. Is there additional card WADs I can download besides the Community one?

3. Dual Lands. Call me lazy, but I've noticed a handful of dual lands that AutoTap (I think one is Badlands). They also have a Symbol on the left of the card (Swamp, Mountain, etc.) I play 2HG with my roommate and manually tapping gets complicated and makes the matches last ages. Is there anyway to make all dual lands AutoTap? Or would I just have to put the ones that I can find that do it in my custom decks?

4. Cards with the delve ability show as able to be played in the Graveyard.

5. Relentless Rats doesn't work. I don't mind, but just thought I'd point it out. If I play two, they both stay 2/2, instead of becoming 3/3.

I'm really sorry if all this is annoying, but I love all the work you and others have done. I've been stuck on Dules for a while, until I found this website. If you need me to move the thread, that's ok too.

Thanks so much!

[RiiakShiNal]

1. I made a custom token deck in Builder, and it runs like a charm, however the game maxed my tokens. I know it's max 100 per type, but once I maxed out 100 3/3, I was unable to produce more 2/2'S, even though I only had 24. And by unable, I mean I tapped a creature to produce a token and nothing happened. Is this just a game limitation?

This is probably a coded limitation for the token producers in the CW (Community Wad) to prevent the game from crashing. The game itself can produce more than 100 tokens in total (though a limit of 100 for any given type), but after 100 tokens for any given player you start running the risk that the game will crash since the engine was never intended to have a lot of tokens in play (100 tokens for any given player is the most that the engine is guaranteed to be able to handle).

NOTE: Manual Mana generates tokens, but does not have a coded token limit so it is possible that having 100 regular tokens in play and then using manual tap mana sources (especially if they produce a lot of mana) could cause the game to crash due to exceeding how much the engine can really handle.

2. I've got the Community WAD, but every now and then a downloaded deck comes up with missing cards. Is there additional card WADs I can download besides the Community one?

There are additional card WADs, but considering most haven't been updated in ages you run higher risks of conflicts, errors, bugs, and instability. It could also just be that the deck was made with a specific version of the Community Wad and the card name has been changed since the deck was made or the specific card was removed, or it was made with a version of the CW newer than what you are currently running.

[Xander9009]

Many thanks! Seems to be working now.

I tested Sliver Queen vs Damia, me being Sliver, AI as Damia.

Sliver Queen worked perfectly, cast her three times.

I noticed that the AI had ample mana to cast Damia, but didn't, even choosing to cast 0 spells on some turns.


Just a couple (Non-EDH) questions in general, since you're the man with the most skill here.....

1. I made a custom token deck in Builder, and it runs like a charm, however the game maxed my tokens. I know it's max 100 per type, but once I maxed out 100 3/3, I was unable to produce more 2/2'S, even though I only had 24. And by unable, I mean I tapped a creature to produce a token and nothing happened. Is this just a game limitation?

2. I've got the Community WAD, but every now and then a downloaded deck comes up with missing cards. Is there additional card WADs I can download besides the Community one?

3. Dual Lands. Call me lazy, but I've noticed a handful of dual lands that AutoTap (I think one is Badlands). They also have a Symbol on the left of the card (Swamp, Mountain, etc.) I play 2HG with my roommate and manually tapping gets complicated and makes the matches last ages. Is there anyway to make all dual lands AutoTap? Or would I just have to put the ones that I can find that do it in my custom decks?

4. Cards with the delve ability show as able to be played in the Graveyard.

5. Relentless Rats doesn't work. I don't mind, but just thought I'd point it out. If I play two, they both stay 2/2, instead of becoming 3/3.

I'm really sorry if all this is annoying, but I love all the work you and others have done. I've been stuck on Dules for a while, until I found this website. If you need me to move the thread, that's ok too.

Thanks so much!

I'm really amused that I was referenced as the one here with the most skills, only to have someone more skilled reply.

1: There's no special code in the CW for limiting tokens. So, this seems to just be a happy accident, since as Riiak points out, 100 is the most you're safe having.

2: Riiak's point on this is spot on. The CW only very rarely alters cards' filenames, and whenever one is changed (or a card is deleted), I try to make sure all of the decks in the CW Decks folder are updated to reflect to change to avoid this exact issue. I must have missed some at one point. I'll go through tonight and load them all up. The Deck Builder and thankfully inform me when cards are missing, so I'll try to get it fixed quickly.

3: All dual lands should have been given the ability to both auto-tap and manually tap. That said, there are still versions left of those cards (because of the previous point; that's a LOT of cards to delete) that only manually tap. Look at the filename. If it has _MM_, then it will only manually tap.

4: No they don't. They show the ability to choose which cards to exile to play them. In order to make sure their "delve" ability is usable in as many situations as it should be able to be used in, it's active in all zones other than the library. Using the ability only makes it so if you manage to cast it somehow, the chosen cards will be exiled to pay for the mana cost.

If you're certain it was actually showing as able to be cast, and not just that you could activate the delve ability (which doesn't directly cast the card), then let me know, and I'll take a look at them.

5: Relentless Rats should work starting after tonight's update in a few hours.

----

As for the issue you noted with the AI not playing its commander, error3 looked into this, and I've just noticed he(?) apparently narrowed it down to cards with alternate casting costs being in the deck causing this issue. I'm not sure why it would, but I can look into it. I didn't notice he'd edited his post to include that new information (or if I did notice it before, I forgot).

----

Also, I did reply on Discord. I was just napping when you messaged...

[Finnical]

Dealt damage with my Brago commander, targeted him to blink. He then was zoomed in the middle-left of the screen with a gold line pointing to the graveyard, and nothing else would happen. Could not get game to continue. I suspect the game was confused about whether to ask me if I want to send him to the command zone or trigger his ability without asking me about the command zone. (I would never want to send him to the command zone that way)

[Splinterverse]

I just played a Free-for-All EDH match against 3 AI players. None of the AI players ever cast their commanders. They had mana and the game lasted for many turns, so they had plenty of opportunities. Come to think of it, I don't recall the AI ever casting their commander in the matches I've played. Could the AI be "trained" to basically ignore Exile since very few cards have abilities in that zone?

If the answer is yes, I'm wondering if it would be better to put it on the battlefield instead of Exile and maybe change the cards type to something where it would be ignored other than an activated ability to cast it (therefore moving it out of the command zone).

[Xander9009]

Yes I saw this post. In fact, I specifically remember writing out a reply to it, and yet that reply is missing. Not sure if I just didn't hit submit or what... Short version of what I recall: I know the AI has problems casting the commander from the command zone when potentially any card has the possibility of having an alternate casting cost. That much was discovered by error3.

The AI could cast its commander. He added Gitaxian Probe, or Dig through Time, or Treasure Cruise, and with any of those added, the AI could not cast its commander. I haven't yet looked at why.