Drafting 2.0 is here

[Bog Wraith]

jatill,

It just keeps getting better all the tiime!

This drafting module is great. I'm having an absolute blast with it.

I've conducted a few drafts already and there has been no problems at all.
All the work for the opponents decks are done automatically so you only have to concentrate on getting your deck built.

Short of being able to see what card an individual opponent picks during the draft itself, which I know is impossible with the game engine such that it is, the whole process is really well implemented.

This, along with Momir Basic and Vanguard, has added so much re playability to this amazing game, that it will remain fresh for many years to come.

I hope that eventually you and others, with Snacko's help, will crush the 2000 card limit and also get all these great new cards into Shandalar as well. It seems from what I've read in posts by Snacko and others that both these things are doable!

Results like these from this draft module prove to me that almost anything can be accomplished within ManaLink!

Thanks to Snacko for his amazing input and guidance and once again to you jatill for your awesome talent, dedication and commitment to our beloved game.

Out freakin' standing gentlemen!

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Is there anyway to get the draft module to score our deck once it is made so we can compare our deck strength against the 7 opponent deck scores? This would be very cool indeed if it is possible!

[jatill]

Is there anyway to get the draft module to score our deck once it is made so we can compare our deck strength against the 7 opponent deck scores? This would be very cool indeed if it is possible!

I could score the 45 cards you drafted, but the score would always be higher that the AI's decks, since their score only counts 23 non-lands. A couple ways I could score a completed deck are to write the score to a file, or to add a card that tells you your score. (It's funny what we can bend cards to do...) Or, I could count the score for your 23 best cards. So many options that all suck

This did give me an interesting idea of how to play, though. As long as the ai base values are not updated, it should be pretty easy to squish the AI in drafts. Maybe a fun challenge would be to draft the best deck, and then YOU use the 7 AI decks against it and see if you can win.

[Bog Wraith]

If you could implement something that could evaluate our deck(s) after we've made it/them, minus the lands, it would be cool.

What I am doing is treating the 7 opponent decks plus mine as a Rochester draft table that is done at real MTG tournaments where each table consists of 8 players. I am going to play each deck and play them against the other 7. So, first off I will play my deck vs. the 7 opponent decks. Then I will play Opponent deck 1 vs the other 6 opponent decks and my deck that I drafted. Then I will I will play Opponent deck 2 and do the same as above. I will do this with all 7 Opponent decks so as to simulate the 8 players at this one table playing each other in a best of 3 match. I will then take the 2 best scores from these games and pair them off in a best of 5 match. In this case, I will play the deck with the lower rating and give the AI the better deck.

This is why I'd like to be able to score the deck I draft.

I want to then conduct a new draft and do the same thing as I describe above. I will do this for a total of 8 times, conducting a total of 8 drafts. This will simulate a 64 player tournament. The winners from each of the 8 tables will then play each other in a round robin series of best of 5 matches. The 2 best records will then play each other in a tournament final. Any ties will be broken by the best record with the lowest deck score. This means that the weaker deck will get the tie breaker as they won vs. stronger decks! I will also always assign the AI the stronger of the decks when I get to the final matches for both the 8 table final matches and the 8 finalists tournament matches. Again, another reason why I'd like to have someway of getting my drafted deck(s) score.

Yes, this whole procedure will take time, but I think this is a great way to play this draft out, in a true tournament format. The key of course is to play each deck as if it is your own, showing no favoritism for the deck you drafted. And always giving the AI the better, or higher scored deck to play, thus negating somewhat the inherent weaknesses we all know that the AI plays it's game with.

This drafting module has really added a tremendous new life to this game. Already I'm seeing deck construction with colour combination's that I have rarely seen before in the Sealed Deck play module. Usually, you see Black, Red and Green predominantly used in combination with each other in Sealed. The compositions are better then they used to be since all the new cards were added in.
However with this Drafting module, I am already seeing decks with colour combos that I have not, or rarely seen before.

This is HUGE!

I can not emphasize enough how this will create so many more options and challenges in playing vs the AI because there will be decks created with so many more choices and strategies due to the colour types being used in combination with all of the 5 mana types! Much more of the complete card pool will end up in these games.

Sealed deck play has always been my favorite way to play within ManaLink.
I think I've found something new that will surpass it as my favorite way to play!

I'm not sure enough people understand what an amazing new development this is, at least not yet!
Give it a try folks. This is ManaLink at it's best!

[jatill]

Glad you are enjoying it! I really hoping someone updates the spreadsheet to fix the ai valus for all the cards, so the AI can build stronger decks. Orion started on this, but I didn't give him clear guidelines on what values to use. Bog, since you're going to spend 100 hours drafting, maybe you'd like to spend the 2 hours up front to fix the values?

And btw Bog Wraith, regarding your 64 player tournament... You are insane!

[Bog Wraith]

Yes, but it's a good kind of insanity!

Besides, I'm really harmless once you get to know me!

I am loving this even more then I can convey with my words in my above post.

Awesome...simply awesome!

I have no experience at all with programming or data entry, but if it would be easy to learn this part, I would be willing to give it a try when I have time, hopefully later this summer or early fall, earlier if it would take only a couple of hours or so to do this. Is it something that you could teach me?

Also, if I do this, maybe I can learn what I need to be able to do some of the work with the card1.dat file that Snacko mentioned needs to be worked on to get these new cards into Shandalar!

[jatill]

Yes, but it's a good kind of insanity!

Besides, I'm really harmless once you get to know me!

I am loving this even more then I can convey with my words in my above post.

Awesome...simply awesome!

I have no experience at all with programming or data entry, but if it would be easy to learn this part, I would be willing to give it a try when I have time, hopefully later this summer or early fall, earlier if it would take only a couple of hours or so to do this. Is it something that you could teach me?

Also, if I do this, maybe I can learn what I need to be able to do some of the work with the card1.dat file that Snacko mentioned needs to be worked on to get these new cards into Shandalar!

I'll teach you right here, right now! In your magic folder, there is a file called manalink.csv. If you can open it using SkyEditor or Excel, great. If not, notepad will do. There is a column called 'AI Base Value'. Example: for Kokusho, the value is currently set to 100. Just update that field to the appropriate value for the card, as specified in another post. (Kokusho should be 100...). It should only take a few seconds per card. Once you're done, save the file, and run csv2dat.exe, which should also be in your magic folder. And you're done! Easy, right?

[Bog Wraith]

ok, sounds easy enough, but how do I determine the value number for each card.

Obviously, Shivan Dragon would be 100 I would think, but is there a guide or chart to get the values from, or is it something I have to assign. If so, it would be a very subjective process which would lead to a lack of accuracy and disagreements. I don't mind doing the input work, though it will take time as i guess this has to be done for each of the nearly 2000 cards. However, if I have to determine and assign the values for each card, my desire to this is diminished!

Can you link me to the post you refer to?

[jatill]

Here's the values I propose:

100-200 Bombs that potentially win the game on their own (Loxodon Warhammer, Meloku, Fireball)
80-99 High Quality removal (Terror, Swords to Plowshares)
70-79 Very strong Creatures (Air Elemental, Serra Angel)
60-69 Strong Spells (Tidings)
50-59 Above Average Creatures (Durkwood Boars, Prodigal Sorcerer)
40-49 Medium quality Removal (ex: Immolation)
20-39 Average Creatures
10-19 Lands and mana fixers
1-9 Filler cards (ex: Grizzly Bears)
0 Cards that should never make your draft / sealed deck

The most important thing would be to get all the current negative numbers changed to 0's, and all the current 0's to something more than 0, if the card is playable. Obviously, no one wants to update 1800 cards, but every hundred cards helps!

[Bog Wraith]

ok, I will look into this in a few weeks as I have some other things that are going on now and I have family coming to visit next week.

The tournament play that I want to do that I posted above will take me quite awhile to get through, but I will post my results as I go. It should prove to be a fascinating journey!

[ZyniX69]

Wow Bog is right this is loads of fun! I was wondering though, is there a way to remove the Rules Engine card from the draft? I just hate having 3 cards replaced with a card I won't ever pick.

Also would it be possible to replace the Sealed decks with those created from the draft? Then it would really feel like a true tournament.

[jatill]

Wow Bog is right this is loads of fun! I was wondering though, is there a way to remove the Rules Engine card from the draft? I just hate having 3 cards replaced with a card I won't ever pick.

I don't know what you mean. Is the rules engine card actually showing up in cards to pick?

[ZyniX69]

Yes it is, almost every time actually! It looks like a black card but says Rules Engine.

[Keys Myaths]

This is great stuff, and a lot of fun--but I noticed that if you ignore rarity, you get a TON of duplicate cards when each pack rotates--it's almost like everyone's opening the same pack.

Is there something off with the randomizer?

[tiger]

Ok, I'm awfully sorry for the TOTAL noob questions, but I *am* a noob, so...

-I'm confused, how does this module (and drafting in general) work?
-Does it add new cards to the game? I've seen mentioned a few (above in the topic) that I couldn't find in deckbuilder
-What about the 2000 cards limit?

Again sorry for bothering with such questions..

[grizox657]

Do you guys think its possible to implement planeswalkers? Has anyone tried? I could just imagine the AI trying to use them lol... what about separating the rest of the expansions/base sets for drafting and sealed?