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Astral cards, Oracle text?

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Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby Marek14 » 07 Sep 2010, 13:48

Hello, I wanted to try and update the old Astral cards (as well as the Dreamcast cards) to new Oracle templates. However, to do it properly, I'll need some information. With proper Oracle templating, these cards could be lifted to other projects as well, if they want them.

I started from the HQ "scans" here.
The cards:

Aswan Jaguar
1GG
Creature - Cat
2/2
When Aswan Jaguar enters the battlefield, choose a creature type at random from among all creature types that a card in target opponent's decklist has.
GG, T: Destroy target creature with the chosen type. It can't be regenerated.

Unresolved issues:
1. Interaction with tribals - should a Lignify in opponent's deck allow "Treefolk" as a possible choice?
2. Should the first ability be triggered or replacement "As Aswan Jaguar enters the battlefield"?

I consider the "decklist" to be the contents of the library before the game started (so it takes into account sideboarding), but it's not affected by Seshiro the Anointed Avatar.
A single changeling or Mistform Ultimus in opponent's deck means the Jaguar can choose from among ALL creature types.
I changed the creature type to Cat.

Call from the Grave
2B
Sorcery
Choose a player at random. Choose a creature card in that player's graveyard at random and put it onto the battlefield under your control. Call from the Grave deals damage equal to that creature card's converted mana cost to you.

Unresolved issues:
1. Does it, in-game, choose a graveyard first, then a creature card, or does it choose a creature card from all graveyards? A way to test it would be to try it with one graveyard empty, and other containing creature cards. In first case, it should "fizzle" in 50% of cases.
2. Does it deal damage equal to the CMC of the creature in graveyard or on the battlefield? (This matters for things like Clone whose CMC might change once they are on the battlefield. Thinking about this, I'm not sure how Reanimate interacts with Clone...)

Faerie Dragon
2GG
Creature - Dragon
1/3
Flying
1GG: Perform a random action.

Faerie Dragon (and Whimsy) have a list of possible actions they can perform. What I want to know is:
1. Which actions are possible?
2. Is the action chosen on announcement or on resolution? What happens if it has targets? Are they replaced by random choice? If so, can an object with shroud be chosen?
3. Are all the actions equally likely?

Gem Bazaar
Land
When Gem Bazaar enters the battlefield, choose a color at random.
T: Add one mana of the last chosen color to your mana pool. Then choose a color at random.

Unresolved issues:
Like Aswan Jaguar -- "When" or "As"?

Goblin Polka Band
RR
Creature - Goblin
1/1
2, T: Choose any number of target creatures at random. Tap those creatures. Goblins tapped this way do not untap during their controllers' next untap steps. This ability costs R more to activate for each target.

Unresolved issues:
If a Goblin that's already tapped is targeted, will it be prevented from untapping?

Necropolis of Azar
2BB
Enchantment
Whenever a nonblack creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a husk counter on Necropolis of Azar.
5, Remove a husk counter from Necropolis of Azar: Put a X/Y black Spawn creature token named Spawn of Azar with swampwalk onto the battlefield, where X and Y are numbers chosen at random from 1 to 3.

This is pretty straightforward, I just gave the token a supported creature type.

Orcish Catapult
XRR
Instant
Randomly distribute X -0/-1 counters among a random number of random target creatures.

Unresolved issues:
I need to know what's the algorithm here. I suspect that it will select a random target for the first counter, random target for the second counter, and so on. This would mean that if you cast it with X=2 and there are two creatures, you would end up with two counters on creature A in 25% of cases, two counters on creature B in 25% of cases, and one counter on each in 50% of cases. Does it work like that?

Pandora's Box
5
Artifact
3, T: Choose a creature card at random from all players' decklists. For each player, flip a coin. If the flip ends up heads, put a token that's a copy of that creature card onto the battlefield under that player's control.

Unresolved issues:
Is the number of copies of a creature in the decklists taken into account? I.e. does a creature that's in four copies in both decks have 8 times greater chances to be picked than a creature that's one-of in one deck?

Otherwise, this should work like Aswan Jaguar, taking into account sideboarding but nothing else.

Power Struggle
2UUU
Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, exchange control of a target artifact, creature or land that player controls, chosen at random, and a random target permanent that shares one of those types with it a player who is his or her opponent chosen at random.

Unresolved issues:
Is the opponent chosen first, then a permanent he or she controls? Similar problem as with Call from the Grave.

Prismatic Dragon
2WW
Creature - Dragon
2/3
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, Prismatic Dragon becomes a color chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
2: Prismatic Dragon becomes a color chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)

Rainbow Knights
WW
Creature - Human Knight
2/1
When Rainbow Knights enters the battlefield, it gains protection from a color chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
1: Rainbow Knights gains first strike until end of turn.
WW: Rainbow Knights gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is a number chosen randomly from 0 to 2.

Unresolved issues:
"When" or "As"?

I updated the creature type

Whimsy
XUU
Sorcery
Perform X random actions.

I show my work on the Dreamcast cards as well:

Arden Angel
4WW
Creature - Angel
4/4
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Arden Angel is in your graveyard, choose a number from 1 to 4 at random. If it's 1, you may return Arden Angel onto the battlefield.

Ashuza's Breath
1R
Sorcery
Ashuza's Breath deals X damage to each creature, where X is a number chosen at random from 0 to 2.

Camato Scout
1UU
Creature - Merfolk Scout
2/3
When Camato Scout enters the battlefield, it gains landwalk of a basic land type chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)

(I added the "Scout" type)

Hapato's Might
2B
Instant
Target creature gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is a number chosen randomly from 0 to 6.

Lydari Druid
2G
Creature - Human Druid
2/2
When Lydari Druid enters the battlefield, for each land, choose a basic land type at random. That land becomes that land type. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)

(I hope he IS a human, it's not completely clear. Also, the original text says "all lands become random basic lands"... might that mean that he actually gives them the Basic supertype?)

Lydari Elephant
4G
Creature - Elephant
*/*
Lydari Elephant enters the battlefield as a X/Y creature, where X and Y are numbers randomly chosen from 3 to 7.

Murgish Cemetery
4BB
Enchantment
3B, Discard a card: Put an X/X black Zombie token onto the battlefield, where X is a number randomly chosen from 2 to 6.

(I added the Zombie subtype to the token, based on the picture.)

Saji's Torrent
1U
Instant
Choose a number from 0 to 5 at random, then choose that many creatures and tap them.

(Not sure whether you can choose already tapped creatures or not. Also not sure what happens if the number chosen is larger than the total number of creatures on the battlefield. Do you tap all of them, or none because there is no legal choice?)

Tornellan Protector
2W
Creature - Human Cleric
1/2
T: Choose a number from 1 to 3 at random. Until end of turn, if a source would deal damage to target creature or player, it deals that much damage minus the chosen number to that creature or player instead.

(I added the Human subtype. I assume that the number is only chosen once. I worded the effect without the word "prevent" since it's not used in the original text.)

Velican Dragon
5RR
Creature - Dragon
5/5
Flying
Whenever Velican Dragon becomes blocked, it gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is a number chosen at random from 0 to 5.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby jatill » 07 Sep 2010, 15:14

Why is it so important to write these exactly like Microprose did? There's no easy way of knowing the answers to a lot of these questions (reading the code is not easy). Just do what makes sense instead.

For the cards that say 'when this comes into play', I don't see why you wouldn't continue to leave them as a 'when', as opposed to 'as'.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby Marek14 » 07 Sep 2010, 15:59

When Wizards update the Oracle texts, they want to preserve the original functionality as much as possible. And so do I. It's as simple as that. I'm sure I've seen the information about Faerie Dragon and Whimsy inside some of the files, but I don't even know where on my disk I should look for Shandalar anymore (changed the computer recently).

The reason for "when"/"as" is that nowadays, cards that make choices like that tend to make them "as". In case of Rainbow Knights, for example, having it as "when" means that opponent is free to kill them by any means he wants before the trigger resolves and they gain protection. But I generally agree that "when" wording doesn't make these cards impossible to work so it should stay.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby CirothUngol » 10 Sep 2010, 00:06

Although, in the case of the Rainbow Knights 'as' is actually more accurate to their intended use, since in Microprose's MtG they are impossible to destroy before their protection ability activates. My opinion would be to always attempt to replicate their intended functioning as closely as possible... but that's just me. ^_^
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby Marek14 » 10 Sep 2010, 05:08

But that can be considered normal consequence of rules changing in 6th edition and introducing the stack.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby CirothUngol » 10 Sep 2010, 23:56

...hasn't there always been a Stack? I'm a MtG Player from way-on-back (how far back? I got a Mox Pearl in my 1st starter deck... traded it for a Royal Assassin ^_^), and I remember hearing that they had "tweaked" the rules some years back, especially the Stack. As an archaic example, you've always been able to destroy a creature (say Benalish Hero) with an Effect (such as Lightning Bolt) after an Enchantment (like Holy Armor) had been Targeted and Cast but before it actally Resolved and hit the table, thereby destroying them both. Truth is, I don't remember there being any "comes into play" effects back then. First one I can remember seeing was Nekrataal (still a damn good card).
This PC Version is from the 4th Edition era; yea, there was a Stack (I should probably re-read the newest rules, haven't done that in a decade or so). I believe the Rainbow Knights were intended to have Protection from a random color in imitation of the Order of Leitbur from Fallen Empires (also of the same era) and probably shouldn't be susceptible to destruction before hitting the table.
Again, just my opinion.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby Marek14 » 11 Sep 2010, 05:39

Stack was and wasn't. The term itself is from 6th Edition era. And only in 6th Edition it was codified that stack is used by EVERYTHING: triggered abilities didn't use it until then, which is the crux of the matter.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby heartofdestany » 26 Nov 2010, 02:29

The cards are fine the way they are. Even if they do become broken, they only existed to brake the game in the first place and don't really exist at all anyway except for the Aswan Jaguar that's way to big to play anyway.
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Re: Astral cards, Oracle text?

Postby Marek14 » 26 Nov 2010, 08:00

Yes. The basic thing is that Wizards usually try to preserve the original functionality. I agree that Rainbow Knights should be "as" because we have similar example in Voice of All.

Aswan Jaguar
1GG
Creature - Cat
2/2
As Aswan Jaguar enters the battlefield, choose a creature type at random from among all creature types that a creature card in target opponent's decklist has.
GG, T: Destroy target creature with the chosen type. It can't be regenerated.

Call from the Grave
2B
Sorcery
Choose a player at random. Choose a creature card in that player's graveyard at random and put it onto the battlefield under your control. Call from the Grave deals damage equal to that creature card's converted mana cost to you.

Faerie Dragon
2GG
Creature - Dragon
1/3
Flying
1GG: Perform a random action from the following list:
A creature chosen at random gains trample and gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is its power. At the beginning of the next end step, destroy that creature if it attacked this turn.
You may tap or untap an artifact, creature, or land chosen at random.
If a creature chosen at random has toughness 5 or greater, it gets +4/-4 until end of turn. Otherwise, it gets +4/-X until end of turn, where X is its toughness minus 1.
A spell or permanent chosen at random becomes green. (Mana symbols on that permanent remain unchanged.)
A spell or permanent chosen at random becomes white. (Mana symbols on that permanent remain unchanged.)
A spell or permanent chosen at random becomes red. (Mana symbols on that permanent remain unchanged.)
Faerie Dragon deals 3 damage to a creature or player chosen at random.
A creature chosen at random gains flying until end of turn.
A creature chosen at random gets +3/+3 until end of turn.
A creature chosen at random gains banding until end of turn. (Any creatures with banding, and up to one without, can attack in a band. Bands are blocked as a group. If any creatures with banding a player controls are blocking or being blocked by a creature, that player divides that creature's combat damage, not its controller, among any of the creatures it's being blocked by or is blocking.)
A spell or permanent chosen at random becomes black. (Mana symbols on that permanent remain unchanged.)
A spell or permanent chosen at random becomes blue. (Mana symbols on that permanent remain unchanged.)
A creature chosen at random can't be regenerated this turn.
If a creature chosen at random has power 2 or less, it is unblockable this turn.
A creature chosen at random gets -2/-0 until end of turn.
Return a creature chosen at random to its owner's hand.
Faerie Dragon deals 1 damage to a creature or player chosen at random.
A creature other than Faerie Dragon chosen at random becomes 0/2 until end of turn.
Exile a creature chosen at random. Its controller gains life equal to its power.
Randomly distribute X -0/-1 counters among a random number of creatures chosen at random.

Gem Bazaar
Land
As Gem Bazaar enters the battlefield, choose a color at random.
T: Add one mana of the last chosen color to your mana pool. Then choose a color at random.

Goblin Polka Band
RR
Creature - Goblin
1/1
2, T: Choose any number of target creatures at random. Tap those creatures. Goblins tapped this way do not untap during their controllers' next untap steps. This ability costs R more to activate for each target.

Necropolis of Azar
2BB
Enchantment
Whenever a nonblack creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a husk counter on Necropolis of Azar.
5, Remove a husk counter from Necropolis of Azar: Put a X/Y black Spawn creature token named Spawn of Azar with swampwalk onto the battlefield, where X and Y are numbers chosen at random from 1 to 3.

Orcish Catapult
XRR
Instant
Randomly distribute X -0/-1 counters among a random number of random target creatures.

Pandora's Box
5
Artifact
3, T: Choose a creature card at random from all players' decklists. For each player, flip a coin. If the flip ends up heads, put a token that's a copy of that creature card onto the battlefield under that player's control.

Power Struggle
2UUU
Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, exchange control of a target artifact, creature or land that player controls, chosen at random, and a random target permanent that shares one of those types with it a player who is his or her opponent chosen at random.

Prismatic Dragon
2WW
Creature - Dragon
2/3
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, Prismatic Dragon becomes a color chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
2: Prismatic Dragon becomes a color chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)

Rainbow Knights
WW
Creature - Human Knight
2/1
As Rainbow Knights enters the battlefield, it gains protection from a color chosen at random. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
1: Rainbow Knights gains first strike until end of turn.
WW: Rainbow Knights gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is a number chosen randomly from 0 to 2.

Whimsy
XUU
Sorcery
Perform X random actions from the following list:
Return a permanent that isn't enchanted chosen at random to its owner's hand.
Untap a artifact, creature or land chosen at random.
Tap a artifact, creature or land chosen at random.
Whimsy deals 4 damage to a creature or player chosen at random.
A player chosen at random draws three cards.
Destroy an artifact chosen at random. It can't be regenerated. That artifact's controller gains life equal to its converted mana cost.
Destroy an artifact or enchantment chosen at random.
A player chosen at random gains 3 life.
Prevent the next 3 damage that would be dealt to a creature or player chosen at random this turn.
Destroy a creature or land chosen at random. It can't be regenerated.
A player chosen at random puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
Put a 1/1 colorless Insect artifact creature token with flying named Wasp onto the battlefield. (It can't be blocked except by creatures with flying or reach.)
Destroy all artifacts, creatures and enchantments.
Flip a coin. If you lose the flip, Whimsy deals 5 damage to you. If you win the flip, put a 5/5 colorless Djinn artifact creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
Choose a creature card at random from all players' decklists. For each player, flip a coin. If the flip ends up heads, put a token that's a copy of that creature card onto the battlefield under that player's control.
A player chosen at random discards a card.
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
Draw a card and reveal it. If it isn't a land card, discard it.

I got the list of random actions from prompt.txt. Most of my questions regarding the exact details of random choices from the original postings stay, if anyone is so inclined, but these could be the final Oracle wordings.

One thing I am puzzled about is the Orcish Catapult cast through Faerie Dragon - what is the value of X there?

I gave Faerie Dragon and Whimsy the effects of cards they "mimic" with random choice replacing any targeting (meaning that they will be able to affect creatures with shroud and protection so, but I think that can be allowed, it's better than the nightmare of choosing targets on resolution). I presume that for The Hive and Bottle of Suleiman from Whimsy, the controller is always the one to get the token?
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