The Ultimate Quest Mode Thread

[timmermac]

Thanks. I have them reset, and I've started a new quest with the preferences much closer to the default, except for my starting credits. I'm also starting out with only 20 life and no pets. I am 1-4 so far. I've forgotten how devastating the pets can be early in the game. I'm still playing 5-color landwalkers and favorite creature types. (Angels, Vampires, Dragons, Giants and big fat creatures.)

[Fizanko]

Yes, pets can make a huge difference.
i know that some battle i won would have simply be lost without a pet (to help early damage or take a banishing/damage attack card so further creatures would be sparred).
Especially in higher difficulty with all those P9 the AI can field to play creatures and banish/attack card early

For future references, i regenerated a default quest prefs file (as i had edited my quest prefs), and here's the settings in Forge 1.5.15

quest.preferences | Open

BOOSTER_COMMONS=11
BOOSTER_UNCOMMONS=3
BOOSTER_RARES=1
BOOSTER_FORMAT=Standard
PENALTY_LOSS=15
CURRENT_QUEST=DEFAULT
CURRENT_DECK=DEFAULT
REWARDS_BASE=25
REWARDS_UNDEFEATED=25
REWARDS_WINS_MULTIPLIER=0.3
REWARDS_POISON=50
REWARDS_MILLED=40
REWARDS_ALTERNATIVE=100
REWARDS_MULLIGAN0=500
REWARDS_TURN15=5
REWARDS_TURN10=50
REWARDS_TURN5=250
REWARDS_TURN1=1500
STARTING_BASIC_LANDS=20
STARTING_SNOW_LANDS=5
STARTING_POOL_COLOR_BIAS=6
STARTING_COMMONS_EASY=82
STARTING_COMMONS_MEDIUM=80
STARTING_COMMONS_HARD=78
STARTING_COMMONS_EXPERT=76
STARTING_UNCOMMONS_EASY=40
STARTING_UNCOMMONS_MEDIUM=36
STARTING_UNCOMMONS_HARD=32
STARTING_UNCOMMONS_EXPERT=28
STARTING_RARES_EASY=20
STARTING_RARES_MEDIUM=18
STARTING_RARES_HARD=16
STARTING_RARES_EXPERT=15
STARTING_CREDITS_EASY=250
STARTING_CREDITS_MEDIUM=200
STARTING_CREDITS_HARD=150
STARTING_CREDITS_EXPERT=100
WINS_BOOSTER_EASY=1
WINS_BOOSTER_MEDIUM=1
WINS_BOOSTER_HARD=2
WINS_BOOSTER_EXPERT=2
WINS_RANKUP_EASY=3
WINS_RANKUP_MEDIUM=4
WINS_RANKUP_HARD=5
WINS_RANKUP_EXPERT=6
WINS_MEDIUMAI_EASY=10
WINS_MEDIUMAI_MEDIUM=9
WINS_MEDIUMAI_HARD=8
WINS_MEDIUMAI_EXPERT=7
WINS_HARDAI_EASY=20
WINS_HARDAI_MEDIUM=18
WINS_HARDAI_HARD=16
WINS_HARDAI_EXPERT=14
WINS_EXPERTAI_EASY=40
WINS_EXPERTAI_MEDIUM=36
WINS_EXPERTAI_HARD=32
WINS_EXPERTAI_EXPERT=28
SHOP_MAX_PACKS=6
SHOP_SINGLES_COMMON=7
SHOP_SINGLES_UNCOMMON=3
SHOP_SINGLES_RARE=1
SHOP_WINS_FOR_ADDITIONAL_PACK=10
SHOP_STARTING_PACKS=4

[Fizanko]

Yes !



now time to build some black deck

[timmermac]

I am now 4-13 with this quest with the limitations that I've set. My current thought is that the first color that gets its Lord will be the color I go with for the rest of the quest. Either that, or I'll just switch to Slivers.

[Fizanko]

Decided to put a big test on my good white deck against a Very Hard (Samantha Stephens)

First round turned into my advantage as i was having some nice creatures while the AI had only a couple of artifacts ... until the point i just lost despite having not lost any life

Huh ?

I didn't understood why, but i played the 2nd round, and same thing, i was controlling the battlefield and it was a question of a couple of turns the AI would go down, as it had only a couple of artifact and ... despite full in life i lost.

I decided to use the "Copy to Clipboard" button of the debrief panel to check what the hell happened, if it was some kind of bug i would report.

And i noticed those artifacts the AI had were Grindstone
Grindstone ? during the game i didn't paid enough attention and thought about one of the other stone that isn't much of a threat.

But Grindstone ?

3, Tap: Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If both cards share a color, repeat this process.

wow, talk about a broken card , the ultimate weapon against monocolored or dual colored decks !

No wonder my full white deck got destroyed like that

[friarsol]

And i noticed those artifacts the AI had were Grindstone
Grindstone ? during the game i didn't paid enough attention and thought about one of the other stone that isn't much of a threat.

But Grindstone ?

3, Tap: Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If both cards share a color, repeat this process.

wow, talk about a broken card , the ultimate weapon against monocolored or dual colored decks !

No wonder my full white deck got destroyed like that

Samantha probably used it in combination with Painters Servant, which turns all cards into the same color. Making Grindstone much more powerful.

[KrazyTheFox]

Well this is a pleasant surprise. Start a new quest and go to check out the cards I got, find the following:

• Chandra, the Firebrand
• Gauntlet of Might
• Mark of Fury
• Aladdin's Lamp (Costs just "5" with Gauntlet of Might)
• Blaze and Disintegrate (Very, very nice with 2x red mana)

It's a bit low on creatures, but that's easily solved with a couple trips to the shop.

Edit: And right after the first game in the quest:

I can tell this is going to be a good run.

[tasteful]

And i noticed those artifacts the AI had were Grindstone
Grindstone ? during the game i didn't paid enough attention and thought about one of the other stone that isn't much of a threat.

But Grindstone ?

3, Tap: Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. If both cards share a color, repeat this process.

wow, talk about a broken card , the ultimate weapon against monocolored or dual colored decks !

No wonder my full white deck got destroyed like that

Samantha probably used it in combination with Painters Servant, which turns all cards into the same color. Making Grindstone much more powerful.

and to be clear, Fizanko, lands are colorless, so unless an effect like the Servant is in play, grindstone stops at lands even in a mono-colored deck.

[Fizanko]

Yes, Painter's Servant was in play, very hard AI only use utterly broken decks.

edit : talking about completely broken very hard decks, another very hard AI ( "Apu Nahasapeemapetilon" this time)

Melira, Sylvok Outcast
this one to make sure there's none of the AI creatures that will get a -1/-1

Goblin Bombardment, that in exchange of sacrificing a creature will deal damage to another creature

Murderous Redcap that deals you direct damage when it enters the battlefield and has Persist (so Goblin Bombardement can kill it without a problem, and Melira, Sylvok Outcast will prevent the addition of a -1/-1 on persist so it can come back indefinitively)

And add a couple of the numerous creatures with Persist the deck has, and you're probably seeing the broken trick that will destroy all your lives during a turn (yours or the AI one).

That's not even a question of bad luck, because considering that AI has 4 of each of those previously named cards in his deck he has a big chance to be able to field that combo (oh and in case that deck wasn't broken enough, he has 4 mox )

[tasteful]

they're pretty brutal. the best way to deal with them generally is exploit the fact that the a.i. is inefficient at going off with the combo. for instance when using tutors to find grindstone and painters servant, samantha stephans will often opt to find multiples of one, instead of getting one, then the other. this ends up giving you a lot of time you shouldn't get.

also, both decks rely upon non-black creatures with 3 or 2 toughness. no matter what color you're playing there are a lot of ways to deal with them, just use a sideboard! although green will have trouble with the melira deck

[lazylockie]

against Melira, you can exploit the following things:

- AI will only combo off on YOU at your own EOT. It will machine gun your 1/1 and planeswalkers as soon as the combo is ensembled though.
- You can stop the combo by killing Melira in response to the persist trigger. This only works if AI only has one persist dude, or else it'll activate another combo in response to your removal
- cards that usually are very good against Melira: stuff that exile (Pillar of Flame, Anger of the Gods, Path to Exile), graveyard hate (Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze)

overall Melira isn't that tough to beat. The problem is that sometimes it can become a full aggro deck with multiple Bloodbraid Elf

[Fizanko]

My main problem with the "very hard" very broken decks is that you can't really use your interesting and fun decks you have build and used a lot vs the hard ai, you will need to use broken ones yourself (assuming you have managed to get broken cards by antes , shop, etc...)or build a specific deck to exploit the AI or counter those specific broken decks.

But in the same time i really don't know how it would be possible to deliver a "very hard" battle to the player if the AI can't use very broken decks.

Because at that point you're seeing very hard AI popping up, you usually have gathered enough card to be able to build very good decks even without the couple of p9 the hard AI have.

But is it really interesting to play against an AI that has 4 p9 -along- very broken cards ? I'm not so sure because all i know is that i enjoy playing against the hard AI much more that against the very hard AI.

Hard AI gives a challenge (assuming you don't fill multiple P9 in your decks) but does not feel so broken (despite most of those AI have some broken card and 2 p9 in their decks)

[Xyx]

My main problem with the "very hard" very broken decks is that you can't really use your interesting and fun decks you have build and used a lot vs the hard ai, you will need to use broken ones yourself

That's the nature of Magic, isn't it? Fight fire with fire.

For this reason I'd like to be able to select lower difficulty opponents.

[KrazyTheFox]

Thanks for the turn 4 win, AI!

...I'm having a hard time putting down these elves. They're wonderfully fast compared to my usual mass token strategies.

[RichardHawk]

Another way to beat Melira is making the AI swing into a 1/1 with her and then blowing them out with a combat trick, I used this to great effect with GU Infect.