Forge Beta: 03-09-2012 ver 1.2.5 rev 14663

[Bundy]

The triggered effect of Infernal Medusa does not work correctly.
I enchant Infernal Medusa with Lure and attack. Computer blocks with 2 creatures, Lotus Guardian and Keldon Champion. Only the Lotus Guardian goes to the graveyard at end of combat. When i use Lure on Gorgon Recluse and attack, all blocking creatures go to the graveyard at the end of combat (3 at time of testing).
I noticed that Infernal Medusa only puts one item on the stack, Gorgon Recluse puts an item on the stack for each creature that blocks it.

EDIT
found something else:
I want to cast Hour of Reckoning. I only have 4 squirrel tokens in play and want to tap them all for the convoke ability to reduce the casting cost by . When i select the last squirrel token in the pop-up window, that window closes because i have no more creatures to tap, but now i can't click on DONE in that window. The 4 squirrel tokens become tapped, but are not counted for by the concoke ability and i still have to pay the full casting cost for Hour of Reckoning.

EDIT AGAIN
Seems to be a bit different than i thought. I now tap 3 squirrel tokens and select DONE, but i still have to pay the full casting cost of Hour of Reckoning.
Is the convoke ability broken? I have used it in older versions of Forge without problems.

[moomarc]

The triggered effect of Infernal Medusa does not work correctly.
I enchant Infernal Medusa with Lure and attack. Computer blocks with 2 creatures, Lotus Guardian and Keldon Champion. Only the Lotus Guardian goes to the graveyard at end of combat. When i use Lure on Gorgon Recluse and attack, all blocking creatures go to the graveyard at the end of combat (3 at time of testing).
I noticed that Infernal Medusa only puts one item on the stack, Gorgon Recluse puts an item on the stack for each creature that blocks it.

Infernal Medusa should be fixed now. It was using a type of trigger that only triggers once, instead of the one used in by Gorgon Recluse. It looks like Sloth did both though, so there's possibly a reason for it that I don't know of.

As for the Convoke issues, someone better than me will have to take a look at the code. If I could fix it I'd also have coded up Conspire by now

EDIT: Just tested and convoke is working fine. So either its been fixed already or something else is causing it.

[lazylockie]

This "bug" is around like ages, but has anyone noticed that AI sometimes/most of times has multiple copies of the same card in their initial hand+drawn cards?

You often see multiple copies of removals (Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile), and most frustrating when AI holds multiple copies of Counterspell s.

Is this supposed to happen? Biased shuffling or just AI "luck"?

[Bundy]

EDIT: Just tested and convoke is working fine. So either its been fixed already or something else is causing it.

Just tested it myself, and now it works again
Can't think of any card right now, but than there must be one that affects convoke?

[vagrant87]

I found that you can't play Nameless Inversion from the graveyard when Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is there too.

Edit - You can't play other "Knight" cards as well, tested it with Black Knight also.

Haakon says you can play other Knight cards as long as he's on the Battlefield, while would you be able to play them if he's in the Graveyard?

OH dear, my bad, I should have read it better!... Thanks and sorry for wasting your time.

[stephane]

After playing the card Ghostway, all my current creatures were exiled. However, at end of turn, ALL exiled permanents from ALL games I had played up to that point returned to play. i.e. even cards that had been exiled in previous matches were returned to play.

EDIT: after reviewing the game, I think the extra cards may not have come from previous games, but instead from the computer having played Nightmare Incursion twice on previous turns. It may be that Ghostway returns all cards exiled from the game up to that point.

[stephane]

Pillory of the Sleepless causes a crash when attached to an artifact creature. It may cause the crash on all creatures, but in both cases that I've used the card, it was against artifact creatures.

[moomarc]

After playing the card Ghostway, all my current creatures were exiled. However, at end of turn, ALL exiled permanents from ALL games I had played up to that point returned to play. i.e. even cards that had been exiled in previous matches were returned to play.

EDIT: after reviewing the game, I think the extra cards may not have come from previous games, but instead from the computer having played Nightmare Incursion twice on previous turns. It may be that Ghostway returns all cards exiled from the game up to that point.

Pillory of the Sleepless causes a crash when attached to an artifact creature. It may cause the crash on all creatures, but in both cases that I've used the card, it was against artifact creatures.

Both fixed. Thanks for reporting!

[Youdz]

My opponent's Lodestone Golem doesn't make me pay 1 more for spells cast under Mind's Desire, but it should.

I didn't test with Force of Will or other "free" spells, but they all should cost 1 mana when the Golem is in play. Same with Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance and all other similar effects, didn't test either.

[atar]

I have already post the same question about the challenges 3 times and i am completely ignored...This is quite rude and disappointing for this community...

`
I have seen your messages and I apologize for not responding. I started a new quest recently and have not yet reached a point where the quest challenges are available. I have not yet been able to reproduce this problem.

The new UI and the refactoring of the quest mode has created a few bugs unfortunately. Some bugs are easier to fix than others.

The dev team appreciates the bug reports and they are important. We hope to fix the quest mode related bugs for the next beta.

Thnx a lot for your response.

[moomarc]

My opponent's Lodestone Golem doesn't make me pay 1 more for spells cast under Mind's Desire, but it should.

I didn't test with Force of Will or other "free" spells, but they all should cost 1 mana when the Golem is in play. Same with Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance and all other similar effects, didn't test either.

Mind's Desire and other "you may play this without paying its mana cost' doesn't reduce the cost to 0, it allows you to play the spell WITHOUT PAYING its cost. The golem on the other hand alters the actual cost, so as far as I can tell the implementation is correct. The other cards you mentioned work differently. They either alter the cost like the golem does, or they create an alternate cost and those will in turn be affected by the golem.

[Youdz]

Mind's Desire and other "you may play this without paying its mana cost' doesn't reduce the cost to 0, it allows you to play the spell WITHOUT PAYING its cost. The golem on the other hand alters the actual cost, so as far as I can tell the implementation is correct. The other cards you mentioned work differently. They either alter the cost like the golem does, or they create an alternate cost and those will in turn be affected by the golem.

I could quote the comprehensive rules, but I think I'll be better understood with a practical answer on a similar case :

http://www.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?t=147177

Sphere of Resistance and Lodestone Golem have exactly the same wording.


PS : Yes, I'm a judge (still lvl 0, though), but if you want to wait for a rules guru before correcting, I won't be offended.

[friarsol]

Mind's Desire and other "you may play this without paying its mana cost' doesn't reduce the cost to 0, it allows you to play the spell WITHOUT PAYING its cost. The golem on the other hand alters the actual cost, so as far as I can tell the implementation is correct. The other cards you mentioned work differently. They either alter the cost like the golem does, or they create an alternate cost and those will in turn be affected by the golem.

I could quote the comprehensive rules, but I think I'll be better understood with a practical answer on a similar case :

http://www.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?t=147177

Sphere of Resistance and Lodestone Golem have exactly the same wording.

PS : Yes, I'm a judge (still lvl 0, though), but if you want to wait for a rules guru before correcting, I won't be offended.

Feel free to quote the comprehensive rules, especially when a thread is almost 10 years old and this case could be seen as unintuitive. While cost increases occur before cost reductions, Mind's Desire is actually an Alternative Cost. So basically it goes like this.

1. Check the cost for the Spell. An Alternative Cost was chosen that says don't pay the Mana Cost, so the Mana Cost is 0. Additional costs still need to be paid.
(Some other choices in here that I'll skip for brevity)
2. Do the math for any cost increases and cost reductions. Mana cost can't be less than 0.
3. The cost is now "locked in"

I know for a fact that the cost change code is very old and not very well structured. I'm not sure when a dev will take it on their plate to rewrite the system. Until then, I'm not sure if many of the bugs related to cost change will be fixed.

Mind's Desire used to be a huge mess of a card and was recently updated, perhaps it'll be easy enough to force these types of cards through the Cost Change before their cost gets set.

[moomarc]

This is why I shouldn't try answer anything related to the rules. If a card can be understood differently based on the wording, I'll probably take the wrong option (blame it on the day job ). But I don't mind being corrected at all (Sol has to do it all the time). As long as Forge keeps getting better.

[Youdz]

Ok Sol, next time I'll be more precise.


Another small bug : when I sacrifice a Chromatic Star, the trigger to draw a card doesn't go on the stack immediately. I have to tap another mana source, play a spell, or activate anything before I get to draw the card. I feels like a small glitch from the fact that mana abilities don't go on the stack, so it has to wait for another state-based effects verification before triggering properly.


Edit : Chromatic Sphere works perfectly, though. The glitch really comes from the combination of trigger and mana ability.