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New quest decks

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Sloth » 05 Sep 2016, 14:46

tojammot wrote:
Sloth wrote:I'm afraid the AI will not attack enough with these creatures. How did testing go?

SOme possible additions: Reclamation Sage, Eternal Witness
Well, the AI sometimes mills itself, for starters. Also, even without Aluren the AI can make risky decisions especially with Beastmaster Ascension. Alternatively I can put Epic Struggle and make an alternate win condition.
Epic Struggle is hard to trigger without tokens, even in this deck. A simple Gaea's Anthem also wins the game with 20 creatures most of the time!
I would also cut Augury Owl and Marshaling the Troops, the AI can't play them well.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby tojammot » 06 Sep 2016, 01:02

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Sloth » 06 Sep 2016, 20:12

Now that i think about it, Eternal Witness is not so good in this deck. Gaea's Cradle and Champion of Lambholt are really nice though.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby tojammot » 06 Sep 2016, 21:24

Sloth wrote:Now that i think about it, Eternal Witness is not so good in this deck. Gaea's Cradle and Champion of Lambholt are really nice though.
Alright, I think I know the finishing touches.

Any name ideas?
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 05 Dec 2016, 18:22

Here's my new plan for an aggressive blue deck focused around low-manacost Merfolk creatures with synergy (+1/+1, islandwalk), getting Merfolk to be unblockable in various ways (islandwalk with potential Sea's Claim, protection), and using Collected Company to flip more merfolk faster when an opportunity is given. Features some additional one-ofs (True-Name Nemesis, Thassa, God of the Sea, both seen by Collected Company) to spice things up, as well as a couple interesting twists (I was, in particular, considering Savor the Moment for quite a while since the AI doesn't always time it well, but it works really well with Merrow Commerce in play, especially if islandwalk is active at the moment, and even if the AI misses the timing by casting it earlier, it's still at least an extra draw step and potentially an extra land drop, possibly an extra attack as well if something did not attack before and stayed untapped).

It's strong enough to consistently beat the crap out of many medium quest decks but it doesn't really tackle hard all that well except through serendipity, so I think it lands somewhere in the Medium camp. Ideas for additional balancing are welcome, as well as ideas for a potential Hard version if possible. :)

ARIEL 2 (MERFOLK COMPANY) | Open
4 Collected Company
1 Coralhelm Commander
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
3 Merrow Reejerey
2 Savor the Moment
4 Sea's Claim
3 Silvergill Adept
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
1 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vapor Snag

4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Botanical Sanctum
10 Island
2 Forest


Version 2: removed Silvergill Adept which seemed a bit slow for the occasion when the AI had no merfolk cards in hand (even though it was not common), instead added 1 x Stonybrook Banneret and 2 x Cold-Eyed Selkie which seem to work well in the AI hands in this deck.

ARIEL 2 (MERFOLK COMPANY) version 2 | Open
2 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Collected Company
1 Coralhelm Commander
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
3 Merrow Reejerey
2 Savor the Moment
4 Sea's Claim
1 Stonybrook Banneret
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
1 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vapor Snag

4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Hinterland Harbor
10 Island
2 Forest


Version 3: Harbinger of the Tides was a bit slow because the AI insists on playing it for {2} more with Flash in its own upkeep, so I replaced it with a couple other cards which tend to work better (+1 True-Name Nemesis, +2 Stonybrook Banneret, +1 Cold-Eyed Selkie). Reducing the cost of Merfolk may seem not very significant, but it does allow the AI to play Collected Company more often once the AI plays all of its threats from hand and needs to find more. The deck is now apparently good enough to be able to tackle many Hard decks in an AI vs. AI match and it is even able to snatch wins against some Very Hard opponents in AI vs. AI matches, not sure if maybe it's now worth upgrading to the Hard tier?.. :/

ARIEL 2/3 (MERFOLK COMPANY) version 3 | Open
3 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Collected Company
1 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
3 Merrow Reejerey
2 Savor the Moment
4 Sea's Claim
3 Stonybrook Banneret
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vapor Snag

4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Forest
10 Island


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New quest decks

Postby Randalllsaine » 04 Jan 2017, 14:18

the monarch deck is the one tats gonna be released..rise of d lords and curse of darkness are already released.the monarch deck will consist of the new dark monarch,shadow monarch.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby squee1968 » 04 Jan 2017, 18:48

Agetian wrote:Here's my new plan for an aggressive blue deck focused around low-manacost Merfolk creatures with synergy (+1/+1, islandwalk), getting Merfolk to be unblockable in various ways (islandwalk with potential Sea's Claim, protection), and using Collected Company to flip more merfolk faster when an opportunity is given. Features some additional one-ofs (True-Name Nemesis, Thassa, God of the Sea, both seen by Collected Company) to spice things up, as well as a couple interesting twists (I was, in particular, considering Savor the Moment for quite a while since the AI doesn't always time it well, but it works really well with Merrow Commerce in play, especially if islandwalk is active at the moment, and even if the AI misses the timing by casting it earlier, it's still at least an extra draw step and potentially an extra land drop, possibly an extra attack as well if something did not attack before and stayed untapped).

It's strong enough to consistently beat the crap out of many medium quest decks but it doesn't really tackle hard all that well except through serendipity, so I think it lands somewhere in the Medium camp. Ideas for additional balancing are welcome, as well as ideas for a potential Hard version if possible. :)

ARIEL 2 (MERFOLK COMPANY) | Open
4 Collected Company
1 Coralhelm Commander
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
3 Merrow Reejerey
2 Savor the Moment
4 Sea's Claim
3 Silvergill Adept
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
1 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vapor Snag

4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Botanical Sanctum
10 Island
2 Forest


Version 2: removed Silvergill Adept which seemed a bit slow for the occasion when the AI had no merfolk cards in hand (even though it was not common), instead added 1 x Stonybrook Banneret and 2 x Cold-Eyed Selkie which seem to work well in the AI hands in this deck.

ARIEL 2 (MERFOLK COMPANY) version 2 | Open
2 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Collected Company
1 Coralhelm Commander
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
3 Merrow Reejerey
2 Savor the Moment
4 Sea's Claim
1 Stonybrook Banneret
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
1 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vapor Snag

4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Hinterland Harbor
10 Island
2 Forest


Version 3: Harbinger of the Tides was a bit slow because the AI insists on playing it for {2} more with Flash in its own upkeep, so I replaced it with a couple other cards which tend to work better (+1 True-Name Nemesis, +2 Stonybrook Banneret, +1 Cold-Eyed Selkie). Reducing the cost of Merfolk may seem not very significant, but it does allow the AI to play Collected Company more often once the AI plays all of its threats from hand and needs to find more. The deck is now apparently good enough to be able to tackle many Hard decks in an AI vs. AI match and it is even able to snatch wins against some Very Hard opponents in AI vs. AI matches, not sure if maybe it's now worth upgrading to the Hard tier?.. :/

ARIEL 2/3 (MERFOLK COMPANY) version 3 | Open
3 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Collected Company
1 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
3 Merrow Reejerey
2 Savor the Moment
4 Sea's Claim
3 Stonybrook Banneret
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vapor Snag

4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Forest
10 Island


- Agetian
As a builder of merfolk decks, this caught my attention. My suggestions would be something like this:
| Open
000AAAMerfolkTest

Main:
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Lord of Atlantis
3 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Commerce
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Sea's Claim
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Triton Shorestalker
12 Island
3 Merfolk Sovereign
3 Streambed Aquitects
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Plains
4 Judge of Currents
4 Thalakos Lowlands


To make it even harder you could add moxen, dual lands, mana accelerators, etc.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 04 Jan 2017, 19:05

@ squee1968: Thanks a lot! I'll be sure to test this deck list tomorrow, I appreciate your input and your help! :)

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 04 Jan 2017, 19:11

In r32697, I introduced something experimental and hopefully interesting. I added some basic logic for Illusions of Grandeur and Donate to teach the AI to play these cards together as a combo in order to be able to play a simple version of Illusions-Donate, an old and yet famous combo deck style. Unfortunately, "true" Trix lists are too difficult for our current AI (so, no things like Necro-Donate, and unfortunately, Intuition is very bad with the current AI, so I couldn't utilize it). I made this sample deck list as something that has proven to work with enough consistency, even though it's still somewhat haphazard:

TRIXIE 4 - ILLUSIONS-DONATE TRIX (EXPERIMENTAL) | Open
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Arcane Denial
4 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
2 Disdainful Stroke
4 Donate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Illusions of Grandeur
13 Island
2 Meekstone
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Propaganda
4 Sapphire Medallion
1 Sol Ring
1 Treasure Cruise
3 Unsummon
4 Vapor Snag


A more "classic" version with tutoring (Mystical Tutor/Enlightened Tutor, targeting Illusions of Grandeur and Donate), which is a little less reliable and thus currently placed at Hard tier, is here:

TRIXIE 3 - ILLUSIONS-DONATE TRIX (EXPERIMENTAL) | Open
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Ancestral Vision
4 Arcane Denial
4 Counterspell
2 Disdainful Stroke
4 Donate
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Essence Scatter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Illusions of Grandeur
10 Island
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Mystical Tutor
4 Sapphire Medallion
4 Tundra
3 Unsummon
4 Vapor Snag


Advice is highly welcome as to how to improve this with the current AI in mind. Basically, what I would like to see is some more consistency with the AI getting Illusions and Donate in hand, but sadly, things like Mystical Tutor and Intuition work in a very limited way and the AI tends to waste them (especially Intuition) or play them suboptimally. What other modifications would be good for an AI Trix list? Any other potential outs/win conditions? (I experimented with Bitterblossom but it has proven to be somewhat "wild", sometimes giving the AI a win condition over a failed Illusions-Donate but in many cases killing it completely).

I also experimented with Web of Inertia but that tended to be counter-productive since the deck uses a lot of countermagic which also fills the opponent's graveyard pretty quickly.

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Marek14 » 05 Jan 2017, 11:58

If this is Trixie, would Starlight Glimmer have an enchantment deck based on Starfield of Nyx?
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 05 Jan 2017, 12:24

Marek14 wrote:If this is Trixie, would Starlight Glimmer have an enchantment deck based on Starfield of Nyx?
Haha that sounds like an interesting idea! :D Your comment made me kind of curious what deck styles the main characters would then correspond to :)

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Marek14 » 06 Jan 2017, 14:02

Let's see... Twilight, as the Element of Magic, would be probably combo/control, winning only after long and careful preparation. Blue/White, most likely.
Applejack, as the Element of Honesty, would use no tricks, just pure midrange. She's probably most physically powerful, so Red/Green, which also corresponds to the green trees and red apples. As a farmer, she could make use of various green ramp spells.
Rarity, as the Element of Generosity, would be definitely a group hug in commander, but I'm not sure what she would do in duel.
Rainbow Dash, that's pure aggro. She's all about speed, so her deck would be about winning as fast as possible. Blue/Green, based on blue fliers and green pumping should fit her. Possibly blue/black since she is very self-centered at times and she's quite assertive.
Pinkie Pie doesn't really care about winning, she is just random and funny. That means probably mono-red or blue/red deck which tries to confuse the game state as much as possible via things like Confusion in the Ranks, Grip of Chaos, etc. -- and while the random effects mess up opponent's plans, Pinkie accidentally wins through Chance Encounter and various coin-flipping cards. Pinkie could be also concepted as a mill deck because she usually doesn't win by overpowering her opponent but more like by tiring them out.
Finally, Fluttershy. Her deck is definitely green/white, with her ties to nature and community. Fluttershy is not aggressive at all, so her deck could be very defensive control with Ghostly Prison, etc. Epic Struggle would be a great win-condition for Fluttershy with all her animal friends.

The Cutie Mark Crusaders could have a goodstuff deck with all five colors. It could be great if it comes correctly, but it wouldn't be extra-cohesive -- they are chaotic when together and their plans work as often as they don't.

As for the main antagonists:

Nightmare Moon - blue/black, definitely, with nightmare theme (Torment nightmares, possibly Ashiok as well).
Discord - like Pinkie, but worse. While Pinkie would work as blue/red, Discord is definitely black/red. Madness would be a good theme.
Queen Chrysalis - as a changeling, Shapeshifters are definitely a theme, both smaller Lorwyn changelings and various clone effects. Blue is a must, and as a secondary color, I'd actually use white. For one thing, it would give the deck access to Crib Swap, which would be a fun flavor, but also, white is almost required for anyone who is a monarch (even Marchesa picked up white). But there's still lots of black, so I'd say that Chrysalis is Esper.
King Sombra - the Sombra from the show is basically an eldritch abomination, so black with powerful Eldrazi seems good. With the character development from comics, Sombra might even lose his black in favor of red as he's guided by his emotions a lot.
Lord Tirek - mono-black, as he cares about power and nothing else. Master of Drain Life effects.
Starlight Glimmer - her community/cult building would make her white/black, which would fit with the Starfield of Nyx deck I suggested.

And finally:
Celestia - as the ruler of the whole land, it's only appropriate to give her a domain deck using all five colors to good effects, although white would, of course, be primary.
Luna - Red/white seems nice for her. Why? Well, white corresponds to her dreamwalking and protecting of other ponies' sleep, and red is her emotional instability that led her to things like creating a monster for the express purpose of torturing herself. But more importantly, red has some moon-related cards like Blood Moon or Moonhold. Or, extend to green as well and let her use Werewolves with their lunar addiction problems.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 06 Jan 2017, 14:21

Very interesting considerations, Marek! Thanks! :)

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Marek14 » 06 Jan 2017, 14:42

In addition, another take on Rarity might be to play up her fashion and accessories and give her a deck based on Auras and Equipment.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 06 Jan 2017, 14:47

Haha indeed! :D

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