World Deck Development thread

[moomarc]

Nope. Library of Leng isn't in Forge yet. It's been requested at various times, but elements of that particular card make it a bit more difficult to script than the other no-maximum-hand-size cards.

Correction! As of today Forge does have Library of Leng.

[myk]

Please tell me if there's anything I can do in the deck editor to make world deck creation easier. There already is the "world restriction" filter that will filter out all cards that are not valid for a particular world. It currently also shows reprints from other sets. Is this the correct behavior, or should it not show reprints by default?

I have not had the chance to properly test this yet but, in any case, showing reprints is ok - as long as they are in the required format. For example, for Shandalar (format 2ED, 3ED, 4ED, ARN, ATQ, DRK, LEG), the Unlimited, Revised, and 4th Edition versions of Serra Angel could be displayed - but the later ones (Seventh Edition and newer) should not be displayed.
That would give deck builder the option of choosing the in-format edition that is the most appropriate for a given deck.

I know we discussed this in another thread, but saying it here so everyone knows what's happening.
By default, a "world" filter will allow reprints from other sets since when players create decks to play in the format for that world, reprints are acceptable. This is not quite what world developers want -- which is to only use cards in the sets themselves. The current workaround is to add a set filter (different from a world filter) and ensure the "allow reprints from other sets" checkbox is not checked. I am implementing another option right now. After adding a world filter, you'll be able to r-click on the filter widget and deselect a checkbox that says "Allow reprints from other sets".
Other deckbuilding productivity tips:

• use the spacebar to add/remove cards
• use the left/right arrow keys to switch between the catalog and the current deck
• hit ctrl-f (cmd-f on OSX) to jump to the text search filter, and enter to jump back to the catalog table.
• just start typing while a table has focus to jump to a matching card. hit enter to jump to the next match.

Since the people reading this thread are the "hard core" deck developers, I'd love to hear your suggestions on other ways to make deck building more efficient. Note that some of these features are only currently available in SVN, and won't go "public" until the next daily build/beta release.

[beardedinlair]

Correction! As of today Forge does have Library of Leng.

thank you for that.
Since I am world making, would it be alright if I consolidated bugs and requests to this thread?
I have about 14 decks made, out of around 60 I plan on, and am testing the first three. Some things I noted.
1. Safe Haven does not work, nothing happens when clicked, although it does ask on upkeep if I want to sacrifice it.
2. Angus Mackenzie cannot use his fog ability. Nothing happens when I click on him.
3. White Ward does not protect from Wrath of God. Shouldnt it?
4. Some of the cards with banding arent made, is that cause banding is not programmed in? How hard would it be for me to add them, sans banding, for theme and flavor?
5. I am testing in constructed mode, and for some reason after I block a creature with one of mine, the next turn that creature cannot block again. This does not occur in quest mode.

[beardedinlair]

...
Since the people reading this thread are the "hard core" deck developers, I'd love to hear your suggestions on other ways to make deck building more efficient. Note that some of these features are only currently available in SVN, and won't go "public" until the next daily build/beta release.

Would it be possible to have information in the deck builder as to the status of the ai with cards? Otherwise I can only see that when beginning a game. It is a little frustrating to develop a strategy, build, and then be told it wont work.

[myk]

Would it be possible to have information in the deck builder as to the status of the ai with cards? Otherwise I can only see that when beginning a game. It is a little frustrating to develop a strategy, build, and then be told it wont work.

That's already there -- just go to the editor preferences and check the AI column. It's also on my list to be able to filter by any column value, so you can have an 'AI only' filter and not be bothered by cards that don't have AI implemented.

[friarsol]

Since I am world making, would it be alright if I consolidated bugs and requests to this thread?
1. Safe Haven does not work, nothing happens when clicked, although it does ask on upkeep if I want to sacrifice it.
2. Angus Mackenzie cannot use his fog ability. Nothing happens when I click on him.
3. White Ward does not protect from Wrath of God. Shouldnt it?
4. Some of the cards with banding arent made, is that cause banding is not programmed in? How hard would it be for me to add them, sans banding, for theme and flavor?
5. I am testing in constructed mode, and for some reason after I block a creature with one of mine, the next turn that creature cannot block again. This does not occur in quest mode.

These issues only seem to be tangentially related to worlds, so it'd make more sense to ask them in a bug report thread. If you have a specific concern/question about World Development, then it would make sense to ask here.

Since #4 is more a general question (with stronger ties to World building) I'll answer it here. None of the cards with Banding are scripted because Banding isn't yet supported in Forge. It would be pretty easy to script most of these cards (even with a non-functional Banding keyword). But as for your next implied question: cards that are not officially in Forge should not be included in World decks. We have a no tolerance policy for cards that are incomplete or basically wrong (You don't want to know how Do or Die once worked) being in releases, some people do use half-implemented cards for some of the short list of cards currently not supported on their own. So Banding cards will have to wait for an intrepid soul to implement. (Especially since there is a lot of AI considerations when it comes to banding)

[serrasmurf]

Welcome to the Plane of Ravnica!

Attached is the first part of the Ravnica World:
• Only Ravnica sets are allowed: RAV, GPT, DIS, RTR, GTC; no core sets
• This first part has only guild decks: all decks are 2-colored
• It has the 20 official preconstructed decks, these are your easy opponents (some decks use M13 cards, I have not replaced them yet)
• It has 30 medium/hard AI decks
• And 10 Challenges

I have playtested the world a little. The plethora of color fixing makes deck building a fun challenge. The AI can play his decks reasonable. Unfortunately the AI can’t properly play with signets, karoo lands and guildmages. The challenges are hardly tested. I couldn’t test them outside the quest mode and in the quest mode Forge overrules my settings for these quests so you still can’t play them a lot.

What’s still to be done?
• Playtesting! Love to here all your feedback about decks, deck levels, rewards, etc.
• 3+ color decks! These will create harder AI decks and enable new combo’s
• Some fun cards are not yet in Forge: Aurelia's Fury, Sunforger, Simic Manipulator, Dream Leash, Simic Guildmage, Djinn Illuminatus, Plague Boiler
• Dragon's Maze! Just when I think I’m finished with this I can update all the decks..

Have fun!
KR

[Corwin72]

What are the current worlds that are finished and being worked on?

[beardedinlair]

I have finished the first set of decks, blue white green and blue white. They all have good strategies in place, but somewhat slow, which is the way I actually remember the legends set being.

[Sloth]

Welcome to the Plane of Ravnica!

The quest decks are full of cards the AI can't use. For example the Signets (Azorius Signet), the Guild Lands (Azorius Chancery), Soulsworn Jury, Tidewater Minion, Whispering Madness, Lazav, Dimir Mastermind,...

The game tells you that the AI can't use these cards, so why did you include them?

[serrasmurf]

Hi Sloth,
3 reasons:
- most of these cards appear in the precon decks, i wanted to respect these original lists (for now). Sometimes the AI has troubles with these cards, but that fits the easy level
- Rumble did the same thing, give the AI a combo deck it can't properly play on a low level
- on higher level decks there might be singletons that it can't properly handle, but these are in the decks for flavour reasons and doesn't hurt the AI too much

I might have missed some cards that hurt the AI decks too much, i'll look into that. Still a lot to do on this world

KR

[Sloth]

- most of these cards appear in the precon decks, i wanted to respect these original lists (for now). Sometimes the AI has troubles with these cards, but that fits the easy level
- Rumble did the same thing, give the AI a combo deck it can't properly play on a low level
- on higher level decks there might be singletons that it can't properly handle, but these are in the decks for flavour reasons and doesn't hurt the AI too much

As i've said to Rumble: People will play the duels coming with Forge, notice that the AI can't really use a card, post in the "Card AI (Improvements) Requests" forum and expect us to fix this.

Imagine a new player starting a quest in the Ravnica world and the first opponents he plays are combo decks that don't really work, because the AI is completely ignoring the combo. He might stop playing Forge and will try another game, that actually works.

I'm actually trying to fix Rumble's decks, but it is a lot of work for me.

[serrasmurf]

good point, we don't want new players to quit!
i'll find some time to fix my ravnica decks this week. I don't see a column in the Deck Editor with AI playable, is there another trick to easily spot and replace the non-AI cards?

[Sloth]

I don't see a column in the Deck Editor with AI playable, is there another trick to easily spot and replace the non-AI cards?

You have to enable the AI column in the preferences tab of the deck editor.

[serrasmurf]

Hi
I fixed the decks. Unfortunately I had to put some decks back on the shelf

Before I post, a few questions:

Some cards are marked ? in the AI playable column. They give a warning when you start a match, but I didn´t notice major problems with most of them. What´s your suggestion? In or out?

Grisly Spectacle and Proclamation of Rebirth supposed to be not playable by AI, but the AI plays them fine in my decks, so I´d rather keep them in

KR