Alternative lands filter for latest jatill's release

[0rion79]

Why? I think that it is funny instead. I came from Sardinia, and we often say "mi sesi faendi 'sa conca di aicci" (jocking) that means "you are making my head so big" that means "headache", so my one was a litteral translation from our dialect that, of course, you have taken as an act of angryness, while it was not

[Bog Wraith]

I didn't take it as an angry act in anyway.

It simply was a case of misunderstanding, not misinterpretation.

Anyway, no problemo!

[Bog Wraith]

Have to double post here, sorry!

The bouncelands should not be disabled. They work for sealed, now. I'm not sure what BW is seeing, but I've played sealeds, and the opponent has used the bouncelands without an issue.

Ok, here's proof that the bounce lands are not working, at least for me!

Click on the thumbnails to see the full image.


First, here on Turn #1, the AI passes on playing ANY land from it's hand and is about to end it's turn as you can plainly see!



Second, on Turn #2, the Boros Garrison is played, without a land already in play, and when it resolves, it magically, (pardon the pun!) becomes a Plateau!



Now explain to me again how these lands are working without an issue?

Am I the only one who is having this issue? If so, fine, but I strongly doubt that!

I suggest you build some decks with these lands in it and test them as I have both in Sealed and in Constructed play!

I'm going to post this in the bug update thread of April 17th too so it is documented in that thread.

[jatill]

The Plateau transformation is the intended fix. It's still a bug, and should be noted, but they don't cripple sealed anymore. I've seen the AI not play a land the first turn for a number of (unknown) reasons. The bouncelands may contribute to this, but I've seen games where they will play the lands turn 1 even with a bounceland.

[Bog Wraith]

Then I don't understand why the bounce lands are still enabled!

And, if for example, you are playing with 4 Plateau in your deck already, if you have any Boros Garrison in your deck, you will end up with more then 4 Plateau in play, which is a no no!

Yes, I too have seen times when the AI for what ever reason doesn't play a land as well, but it is much more prevalent when using these lands.

We have enough great lands in the game and I'd rather see the slots used for these bounce lands used for other new cards that don't have these problems or need these weird bug fixes to make them work. Anything that prevents the AI from effecting play even more then normal is, IMHO, the better choice.

[jatill]

They're enabled for the same reason that other cards with bugs/approximations are enabled. It's your choice to play with them or not. The bouncelands with 100% right for the human player, and do not cripple the AI. That's enough to satisfy me. You're of course welcome to disable them in your own version, but I'd like to keep them enabled in the official version.

[Elemental]

@Orion79

I can't download your filters from https://0oxuka.blu.livefilestore.com.

All other downloads work great Nice work !

[0rion79]

They're enabled for the same reason that other cards with bugs/approximations are enabled. It's your choice to play with them or not. The bouncelands with 100% right for the human player, and do not cripple the AI. That's enough to satisfy me. You're of course welcome to disable them in your own version, but I'd like to keep them enabled in the official version.

what if we do not include them in sealed deck and keep them enabled for constructed deck? Is it a good compromise?

[0rion79]

@Orion79

I can't download your filters from https://0oxuka.blu.livefilestore.com.

All other downloads work great Nice work !

Sorry, I bet it is because of the misfunctioning of savefile.com that is causing me to use alternative storing sites. Anyway, I will release another update very soon, whenver this matter of bouncelands finds an agreement. That update will also fix the errors reported until now in the CSV dedicated thread.

[jatill]

what if we do not include them in sealed deck and keep them enabled for constructed deck? Is it a good compromise?

I'd prefer to keep them in sealed, since that's where they're most valuable. I've cracked some dark magic.exe secrets this week, so I think I can make it so they will never appear in your opponents' decks (I could replace them with duals like I do now, or basic, or whatever). Would that be acceptable?

[jatill]

Orion-
Any interest in updating the AI base values for all the cards, or would that be too big a hassle?

[Bog Wraith]

what if we do not include them in sealed deck and keep them enabled for constructed deck? Is it a good compromise?

I'd prefer to keep them in sealed, since that's where they're most valuable. I've cracked some dark magic.exe secrets this week, so I think I can make it so they will never appear in your opponents' decks (I could replace them with duals like I do now, or basic, or whatever). Would that be acceptable?

Yes, I'm willing to at least look at it.

However, if as in my above example, you end up with more then 4 copies of Plateau in play, then it doesn't work! Anything that leads to having an illegal situation in play is, IMO, wrong!
And if this does present itself in Sealed Play, then it is even a bigger problem.

However, I am always willing to look at any kind of compromise as long as it doesn't compromise the intended usage of, or negatively effects the game itself.

[0rion79]

Orion-
Any interest in updating the AI base values for all the cards, or would that be too big a hassle?

No hassle at all really: just tell me how to do it, and I will do it. I mean, you have to explain me how they do work because I've seen that the range goes from -150 to +200 and I would like to know what number means.

@BogW, also I don't understand - due to double quoting - which solution you like more. Could you explain it, please?

[Bog Wraith]

Let's try what jatill is suggesting and see how it works.

[jatill]

Orion-
Any interest in updating the AI base values for all the cards, or would that be too big a hassle?

No hassle at all really: just tell me how to do it, and I will do it. I mean, you have to explain me how they do work because I've seen that the range goes from -150 to +200 and I would like to know what number means.

It's used for AI deck building. The higher number, the more likely it is that the AI will use the card. So artifacts get the highest ratings, since they go into any deck. Anything that the AI shouldn't use, set to a negative number. (they will still use it, but only when they think they need to). There's nothing magic about the specific numbers, though, so hack away!