creating new versions.

[joemuz]

hi, i was wondering how viable it would be to create different magic versions so we can play with every card ever printed. (except the ones which are too hard to program)

what i'm trying to say is that since adding new cards which have essentially the same mechanics as cards already in the game amounts to nothing more than data entry, wouldn't it be possible to create multiple versions (each with different 2000 cards) to make every card playable?

so for instance we could make one version with all the cards from earlier sets: A/B/U, Revised, 4th Edition core sets, and arabian nights, antiquities, legends, the dark, fallen empires, chronicles, homelands expansions

and another version to pick up where the last one left off: 5th edition core set, ice age block, mirage block, rath block, urza block (i'm just estimating how many expansions could fit in a version. of course it would be limited to 2000 cards per version)

then the next version would pick up where the last one left off: 6th edition core set, masquerade block, invasion block, odyssey block, onslaught block.

and so forth all the way up till magic 2010 and zendikar. now obviously this would be a monumental project but if the bulk of the work is really just data entry, (correct me if i'm wrong in assuming this) i'm sure there would be some volunteers who would devote time to making this a possibility. i would definitely volunteer any help i can give to make every card playable.

my vision is basically like the way it is with the latest release where you can run switcher.exe and choose between the classic cards and the zendikar cards except we will be able to choose between all the expansion and core sets in 2000 card blocks.

so is this reasonable? or is there a lot more to it than just data entry? or am i being a little too ambitious/stupid/crazy? let me know what you guys think! thanks!

[jatill]

There's a lot more than data entry. There's also the programming of every card. These things don't write themselves

In any case, what would be the point in having all these versions if you can't play all the cards at once? I mean, you could certainly do sealed, but constructed would be a mess.

There is one person we know of (Snacko) who knows how to break the 2000 card limit, but the work is too time consuming / tedious for him to do. So I'll just keep holding out hope that either he changes his mind or another talented person comes along to fix the problem.

[joemuz]

There's a lot more than data entry. There's also the programming of every card. These things don't write themselves

In any case, what would be the point in having all these versions if you can't play all the cards at once? I mean, you could certainly do sealed, but constructed would be a mess.

There is one person we know of (Snacko) who knows how to break the 2000 card limit, but the work is too time consuming / tedious for him to do. So I'll just keep holding out hope that either he changes his mind or another talented person comes along to fix the problem.

so there is a lot more to it than data entry. oh well i was just hoping it was a lot simpler than programming every card. and yeah, i was thinking along the lines of sealed and construction but you're right, it would probably be a mess.

well thanks anyway, i'm right there with you hoping for someone to find a way around that 2000 card limit!

[aww1979]

It could be done, but look at how much work Zendikar took, and that's what, 110 cards or something?

Some of the vanilla cards are probably nothing more than data entry, like Scaled Wurm in ice age, or clones of other cards, like Ravages of War and Armageddon, but the vast majority of cards would take at least some programming, and the more complicated ones likely take many hours each to get right. I don't even want to think about how much work went into something like Yawgmoth's Will.

And Snacko... ARGH! :p If he knows how to break the 2000 card limit... hopefully he can at least point us in the right direction if he doesn't have time to do it himself. (maybe he already did; I have no idea)

[gmzombie]

didnt snacko say something about moving to a different array in the program. one that would hold more data...i think that was the problem is the 2000 card entry is just a data limit...if im not mistaken chime in Snacko if im saying this wrong.

[Ghost]

Damn.. so the fun part (of finding out) has already been taken and only the tedious part is left?! Aalright.. tell me how and I'll give it a shot... =)

Cheers,
Ghost.

[Aswan jaguar]

Ghost wrote:

Damn.. so the fun part (of finding out) has already been taken and only the tedious part is left?! Aalright.. tell me how and I'll give it a shot... =)

Maybe you want to take look in this thread also,foolosopher is working in that too,and needs help.


viewtopic.php?f=25&t=973&start=45#p11048

[Ghost]

Thanks Jaguar! I've just posted there, you might want to take a look =)

hi, i was wondering how viable it would be to create different magic versions so we can play with every card ever printed. (except the ones which are too hard to program)

what i'm trying to say is that since adding new cards which have essentially the same mechanics as cards already in the game amounts to nothing more than data entry, wouldn't it be possible to create multiple versions (each with different 2000 cards) to make every card playable?

Hi Joemuz, the good news is that you're not alone, I've been having this megalomaniac dream for quite some time =) as most here do I believe! Im glad I found this post without searching much in the forum which would probably make me leave before even trying.

so for instance we could make one version with all the cards from earlier sets: A/B/U, Revised, 4th Edition core sets, and arabian nights, antiquities, legends, the dark, fallen empires, chronicles, homelands expansions

I guess we could leave the obsessive compulsive (collector) version for when (if) we manage to jail break the "y2k" problem =) (joking with the year 2k bug hype, in our case its more like why2k, since everybody asks lol)

.. this way we wont feel we are wasting space and effort with just alternate art and repeats, which would only get in the way of building the decks anyway and everyone will just turn off except one.. (i mean... A/B/U/R are mostly the same cards, and also 4th, chronicles... are just reprints.. we can waste a whole version with them, or we can bring them down to a lean and mean version of 292 cards!(according to my calculations*)) I believe its a no brainer, for now.

and another version to pick up where the last one left off: 5th edition core set, ice age block, mirage block, rath block, urza block (i'm just estimating how many expansions could fit in a version. of course it would be limited to 2000 cards per version)

I actually counted! We can fit 3 blocks in a version and still have a breathing room of 92 cards we can add critical core set cards IF needed. (land?) Each block has a main set which -- supposedly -- can support itself.

This leaves us with 4 versions after the first -- classic -- one; i.e. from mirage block onwards. The 5th version would meet current blocks and still have room for a couple years ahead, which -- being optimistic =) -- would be just in time as we finish the 4 previous ones =) lol (aprox. 6 months each, ~300 cards per month, 10 cards a day = 1 simple, 1 medium + 1 programmed card for each volunteer/day in a 3-4 people team, which we are probably faster).

and so forth all the way up till magic 2010 and zendikar. now obviously this would be a monumental project but if the bulk of the work is really just data entry, (correct me if i'm wrong in assuming this) i'm sure there would be some volunteers who would devote time to making this a possibility. i would definitely volunteer any help i can give to make every card playable.

I do believe though it's feasible to create tools to speed up this process enormously.. like having checkboxes for card mods, etc and even if someone wont mess with programming, he could check a box that the card needed it and another volunteer would see lists of cards that needed programming. The more cards that get programmed into the game, as you rightly noted, the more data entry it would become since one could now use the component that programmer wrote for similar cards.

my vision is basically like the way it is with the latest release where you can run switcher.exe and choose between the classic cards and the zendikar cards except we will be able to choose between all the expansion and core sets in 2000 card blocks.

I suggest starting with a functional version and THEN go on to creating new versions from the point that wizards finally settled with some arbitrary organization, that is, 3 sets blocks which combined always add up to the same number(636) of cards (most of the time). (they once decided to add homelands to the ice age block to settle their obsession with 3, then dropped it , added a new "patch" more than a decade later and homelands went back to the classics, so we dont have to fit into any of this if we dont want to).

The first version would allow us to learn how to do it, the problems we face and how long we take, and hopefully develop the tools and methods to speed up production of future versions. When I say "functional" I mean we can honestly say we fitted the most unique cards possible from the very beginning (which according to my calculations* go up to mirage (not the block) and still leaves 122 slots). The next version would complete the mirage block, though I suggest we also include mirage there for completeness.

Also, i dont think they care but, if Im wrong, if/when we begin the version with mirage(or later) block wizards might try to "cease&desist" us, so at least this first version we have no worries(for reasons I better post later since this post is already getting too big), after we finish this project, then we see if we have the energy to do a more risky one that might have our efforts wasted in vain (though I guess we could always go underground? lol).

With that said, I wonder where you guys are already in regard to the progress of card programming for fallen empires, homelands, alliances, ice age and, also, mirage? too far behind?

so is this reasonable? or is there a lot more to it than just data entry? or am i being a little too ambitious/stupid/crazy? let me know what you guys think! thanks!

I dont know if its reasonable but we can find out =) It sure is ambitious though. Definitely not sane =) but the more people working the less crazy it becomes. The first version doesnt require starting from scratch as the original game already has most of the cards ready, so we would have a very good idea of what would take to do it all.. (in fact, I wonder why they didnt add sets from upto the release of the game, just to sell expansions later? they could do it with the later sets...)

With regard to the 2K limit, this project would NOT be in vain either, IF we get around it, we would already have the cards ready if we complete this, and since it is looking to me like a long term project to understand the code to get around it, we could already start helping the people here programming the cards =)

Cheers,
Ghost

*I`ll show them in a subsequent post, but Im pretty confident about them though it might have happened some sort of CRC error bypass on my neurons..