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Programs with AI or Rules Enforcement Magic: The Gathering - Duels of the Planeswalkers Programming Talk
Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
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Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by NeoAnderson » 27 Oct 2014, 17:44
I would ask you an opinion about the card Hushwing Gryff.
I made it using the follow approach, when a creature card is considering to enter the battlefield, all the permanents (excluding Hushwing Gryff) loses their abilities until the creature is onto battlefield or is countered.
It seems to works fine, but i would be sure i will not break any interactions with other cards.
I would inform you i also made the follow tests :
1. Dual Nature will not trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.
2. Dreadbringer Lampads will not trigger when enters the battlefied itself, it will not trigger when an enchantment creature enters the battlefield.
3. Clever Impersonator and Clone normally asks about the card to clone.
4. Altar of the Brood will not trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.
5. Primordial Hydra enter with the right amount of +1/+1 counters on itself.
6. Rotting Legion enters Tapped onto battlefield.
7. I also played 2 spells with flash with Dreadbringer Lampads onto battlefield.
First spell creature
Second spell enchantment while first spell is onto stack
Dreadbringer Lampads triggers for the second spell.
Here there is the card code:
If someone knows if this code could break any interactions please report it here.
I made it using the follow approach, when a creature card is considering to enter the battlefield, all the permanents (excluding Hushwing Gryff) loses their abilities until the creature is onto battlefield or is countered.
It seems to works fine, but i would be sure i will not break any interactions with other cards.
I would inform you i also made the follow tests :
1. Dual Nature will not trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.
2. Dreadbringer Lampads will not trigger when enters the battlefied itself, it will not trigger when an enchantment creature enters the battlefield.
3. Clever Impersonator and Clone normally asks about the card to clone.
4. Altar of the Brood will not trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.
5. Primordial Hydra enter with the right amount of +1/+1 counters on itself.
6. Rotting Legion enters Tapped onto battlefield.
7. I also played 2 spells with flash with Dreadbringer Lampads onto battlefield.
First spell creature
Second spell enchantment while first spell is onto stack
Dreadbringer Lampads triggers for the second spell.
Here there is the card code:
If someone knows if this code could break any interactions please report it here.
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Re: Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by RiiakShiNal » 27 Oct 2014, 23:32
As I wrote in the PM, this will not work properly. It will be incompatible with static abilities that pump creatures or prevent them from leaving the battlefield in other ways like Indestructible. Consider a Blightsteel Colossus that has taken 11 or more damage, or a 1/1 Elf that has taken 1 damage with an Elvish Champion in play.
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Re: Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by NeoAnderson » 28 Oct 2014, 00:14
As i answered in the PM:RiiakShiNal wrote:As I wrote in the PM, this will not work properly. It will be incompatible with static abilities that pump creatures or prevent them from leaving the battlefield in other ways like Indestructible. Consider a Blightsteel Colossus that has taken 11 or more damage, or a 1/1 Elf that has taken 1 damage with an Elvish Champion in play.
This was also my doubt but i made a test before with Drove of Elves because i was warried that the creature loses is ability to set power and toughness equal to green permanent controlled but it would'n lose it.
Anyway i just tested with Blightsteel Colossus i damaged it with 12 damages toughness was 0, with dual nature in play, i played Hushwing Gryff, then i played a creature spell, Dual Nature doesn't triggers and Blightsteel Colossus doesn't loses indestructible ability and doesn't left the battlefield.
I haven't Elvish Champion coded but i made a test with a similar card like Captain of the Watch it gives +1/+1 to soldier creatures and put 3 white 1/1 soldier creatures in play.
With Dual Nature in play i assigned 1 point of damage to each soldier token (2/2 because of the effect of Captain of the Watch) then i played Hushwing Gryff, and i played a creature spell.
As before Dual Nature doesn't triggers and the token still remain in play without change the power and toughness and assigned damage.
Probably there isn't a reevaluation of continuos effects like power and toughness changes, or abilities like indestructible, between the triggers Zone_Change_Considered and Zone_Change_End.
Do you think could be other issues???
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Re: Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by RiiakShiNal » 28 Oct 2014, 00:26
OK, I'm going to stop answering PMs from you effective immediately especially since you keep asking the same damned questions in the forum (which is the better place for them anyway).
Cards like Diregraf Ghoul should still enter the battlefield tapped and cards like Kismet should continue to function as entering the battlefield tapped is a state, but in DotP has to be implemented as a trigger.
Cards like Diregraf Ghoul should still enter the battlefield tapped and cards like Kismet should continue to function as entering the battlefield tapped is a state, but in DotP has to be implemented as a trigger.
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Re: Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by NeoAnderson » 28 Oct 2014, 00:34
Ahahhah you're right we can keep talking here so also other users can read our discussion, and could be helpful to avoid future questions.RiiakShiNal wrote:OK, I'm going to stop answering PMs from you effective immediately especially since you keep asking the same damned questions in the forum (which is the better place for them anyway).
Cards like Diregraf Ghoul should still enter the battlefield tapped and cards like Kismet should continue to function as entering the battlefield tapped is a state, but in DotP has to be implemented as a trigger.
About your post i would answer as the follow :
This was already mentioned into the first post i sent you if look the point 6,
6. Rotting Legion enters Tapped onto battlefield.
Rotting Legion is like Deep-Slumber Titan, Diregraf Ghoul.... it works because the creature is tapped into transition zone, so this triggers still works.
The only triggers will shut down are ZONE_CHANGE_END to_zone="ZONE_BATTLEFIELD", for this reason also Clone works, also Hydra cards...
About Kismet i am not sure because i haven't checked how it is coded...or if it is already coded.
UPDATE:
Ok i found a card similar to Kismet effect, Imposing Sovereign.
I made a test with Imposing Sovereign in play controlled by an opponent, i had Hushwing Gryff, Dual Nature onto battlefield.
I tried it and i found there is an issue with these kind of cards, the creature cards enter untapped.
So, i decided to reduce the interval when the abilities are disabled changing from ZONECHANGE_CONSIDERED to ZONECHANGE_TRANSITION without the pre_trigger condition.
Now it works also with these kind of cards!
Creatures are affected also by these effect and enter the battlefield tapped while Dual Nature still doesn't trigger.
This because before i was using the follow interval :
ZONECHANGE_CONSIDERED---->ZONECHANGE_TRANSITION---->ZONECHANGE_END (ZONE_BATTLEFIELD)
During all this interval the abilities of the object onto battlefield were disabled so any ability that should trigger into this interval didn't trigger except for the abilities of the object into this zones!
Now the interval is shorter :
ZONECHANGE_TRANSITION---->ZONECHANGE_END (ZONE_BATTLEFIELD)
So any ability of the cards onto battlefield including the ZONE_CHANGE_TRANSITION will trigger, the only abilities that will not triggers are the abilities with ZONECHANGE_END (ZONE_BATTLEFIELD).
So please if you have any other idea of possible conflicts please tell me.
Here you can find the revised code
- Hushwing Gryff - NEO REV 1.1 | Open
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Re: Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by RiiakShiNal » 28 Oct 2014, 11:02
Another case to test and account for would be cards returning from the graveyard in response (Dragon Breath, Cloak and Dagger, and others). Additionally, you should check cards like Bonehoard to make sure they generate the germ when they enter the battlefield.
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Re: Opinion about the effect of Hushwing Gryff
by NeoAnderson » 28 Oct 2014, 12:25
Dragon Breath, Cloak and Dagger...abilities should not trigger because they refer to "When a Creature enters onto battlefield", about Bonehoard it isn't a creature so its ability should work without issue anyway would make some tests if i found these card already coded.RiiakShiNal wrote:Another case to test and account for would be cards returning from the graveyard in response (Dragon Breath, Cloak and Dagger, and others). Additionally, you should check cards like Bonehoard to make sure they generate the germ when they enter the battlefield.
UPDATE
Ok i made some quick tests i haven't Bonehoard but i used Batterskull that has the same ability (Living Weapon) and it works. It normally put the Germ token onto battlefield that doesn't cause any abilities to triggers, and the living weapon is attached to it.
The issue is about Dragon Breath because it still triggers when a creature enters onto battlefield, but this is simple to resolve because when i disabled the abilities i was only looking to cards onto battlefield, i added also the zone, Graveyard, hand and exile, and now it works.
So the revise code is :
- Hushwing Gryff - NEO REV 1.2 | Open
Thanks Riiak for you precious help to debug these cards, is not simple to think to all the possible interactions. Now i think it should be ok, or you still think should be possible interactions not working with it??
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