Bug hunters topic

[Korath]

3- us testers and me particularly don't have the knowledge how to even test the code you attach to bugs for fixes(I hope you can help me with that: a guide and tools needed to deploy code)if we follow this way or it would mean that every day or so the developer will have to give us the updated fixed files to patch in and test them.

Retesting would have to wait until the next full release, which is one of the reasons there needs to be a way to filter out bugs that are resolved (a developer has made a change to fix the bug) but not closed (fix has been confirmed working in a release or release candidate).

Question: when threads are moved between forums here, do they leave a little "moved to:" pseudothread behind? If so, it kind of defeats the purpose (which is so unresolved bugs can still be found without being distracted by fixed ones).

[stassy]

Question: when threads are moved between forums here, do they leave a little "moved to:" pseudothread behind? If so, it kind of defeats the purpose (which is so unresolved bugs can still be found without being distracted by fixed ones).

This option can be disabled so a moved thread can leave no trace from its original place.

If we are going that route, I suggest we do not close the card thread (only let the fix tag on subject thread), because some cards fixed earlier can break again after some code changes (flashback case, Gaea's Cradle case, etc...)

[stassy]

Fixed Bug subforum created.

I will start to move fixed threads into it, then will modify the how to report thread accordingly.

So to be clear if everyone agree until another proposal is submitted :
- Bugs are reported with the usual bug format in the Bug reports section

1|-> if no answer or no fix it will be deleted in approx 15 days until resubmitted (Gargaroz proposal)

2|-> if fixed thread will be moved to Bugs Fixed section
2a||-> if a bug is found in a card that has a thread in the Bigs Fixed section, report must be posted in it, and the thread need to be moved back into the Bug reports section (what happen in that case if a bug is not answered or fixed in approx 15 days? Delete the thread of move back to Bugs Fixed section?)

3|-> Bug is hard to fix or on hold or waiting for an ultimate fix confirmation : currently thread will stay in the Bug reports until a clear answer is given

4|-> Unfixable and old report thread is to be deleted permanently : this will make the Unsolved bugs list unavailable, are we all ok with this?

[Aswan jaguar]

Stassy,(according to Korath's suggestions more or less)is this new subforum of the "check if fixed" bugs can do any of these:
1- each bug with the replies to it, have to stick together? and not like in the archive that they go in chronological order and they are not easy to be read and found?
2- Be able to move them forth and back altogether (bug and replies) to the main bug forum and that with an easy way if they relapse?(e.g button: restore to main bug forum)or if someone replies to them?
3- So then the ones that are tested as fixed when new update is released will then be tagged as FIXED. and either stay there (sounds better because there is always the chance to have an interaction or relapse with new cards,)or hit the fix archive,then.

- Although,YOU DEVELOPERS HAVE to say before if you are going to follow this or the bug-trucker so no work in vain is done by Stassy.Any news,Gargaroz,Sonic did you see what has been discussed here regarding possible changes for more efficient work suggested by Korath?

About the name of the new topic can you change it to something like "Bugs resolved-to be checked with new update if fixed" ,"fixed to be checked" so it is clearly different from the "[fixed] bug archive"?

Stasy wrote:
4|-> Unfixable and old report thread is to be deleted permanently : this will make the Unsolved bugs list unavailable, are we all ok with this?

I think there are still useful info there and interactions between cards that can't be easily reproduced unique cases....etc.

[Korath]

1|-> if no answer or no fix it will be deleted in approx 15 days until resubmitted (Gargaroz proposal)

4|-> Unfixable and old report thread is to be deleted permanently : this will make the Unsolved bugs list unavailable, are we all ok with this?

I don't get the logic of these. The unfixed bug archive is very difficult to work with, but not impossible. Similarly, bugs that can't be reproduced; bugs without enough information to tell what the bug is and no followup by the reporter; reported bugs that actually describe correct behavior - these are all legitimate reasons to close a bug, which would mean a move to the Fixed Bugs subforum here. They do still have value, though, in that they'll turn up in a search; and they'll remain ready to be reopened (i.e. moved back to the main forum) if a repro is found, the reporter clarifies, or the assumed correct behavior turns out to be wrong after all, respectively.

If someone keeps bumping an old unfixed bug with posts like "Will this be fixed soon?" or such, as opposed to further clarifying it or identifying similar cards, that's a problem with the poster, not the bug thread.

2a||-> if a bug is found in a card that has a thread in the Bigs Fixed section, report must be posted in it, and the thread need to be moved back into the Bug reports section (what happen in that case if a bug is not answered or fixed in approx 15 days? Delete the thread of move back to Bugs Fixed section?)

Generally, if a bug is found with a card that was previously buggy, it should get a new bug thread unless it's substantially the same bug. (Example: Vesuva not having enter-the-battlefield effects for its copied land, Vesuva entering the battlefield tapped when it doesn't copy something, Vesuva interacting poorly with Undiscovered Paradise are all separate bugs.) Best practice would be to post links to other threads for the same card in a new report. On the other hand, there's not a lot of value in telling someone to repost a reply he made to an old fixed bug as a new thread.

[stassy]

1- each bug with the replies to it, have to stick together? and not like in the archive that they go in chronological order and they are not easy to be read and found?
2- Be able to move them forth and back altogether (bug and replies) to the main bug forum and that with an easy way if they relapse?(e.g button: restore to main bug forum)or if someone replies to them?
3- So then the ones that are tested as fixed when new update is released will then be tagged as FIXED. and either stay there (sounds better because there is always the chance to have an interaction or relapse with new cards,)or hit the fix archive,then.

All those editing/thread manipulation are doable in the new section (it's just a subforum in fact), it was always possible before and for now to do anything to a thread with a moderator power (separate, merge, isolate threads and posts), though it would be a titanic job to do that to the current unfixable/old thread)

About the name of the new topic can you change it to something like "Bugs resolved-to be checked with new update if fixed" ,"fixed to be checked" so it is clearly different from the "[fixed] bug archive"?

It's not a new topic but a new subforum so you can create any new thread as you wish like the current Bug Reports root section, the main issue I think would be it's like the Shahrazad syndrome : it will need a double check on Fixed and root section.

Stasy wrote:
4|-> Unfixable and old report thread is to be deleted permanently : this will make the Unsolved bugs list unavailable, are we all ok with this?

I think there are still useful info there and interactions between cards that can't be easily reproduced unique cases....etc.

That is the main issue for this bug report overhaul : if we delete those threads, the unfixable card list become obsolete (because the ref link won't work), and the dev quote for the partially working cards either so those list will have to be deleted too.
I don't mind about restarting from 0, but dev will have to be prepared for a zerg of "new old" bugs..

Korath> Ok I think I understand what you mean, so if a thread is not answered, unconfirmed, confirmed or need more info in the next 15 days it must still be moved in the new Fixed Bugs section with the proper tag, right?

The post deletion rule was done at Gargaroz request from this some times ago :

wrote:
- Could we left in the main subforum only the threads younger than 15 days ? It will be easy for me to spot the newer bugs and the older ones will be still available in the other sub-thread.
- All the threads regarding unconfirmed bugs older than 15 days should be deleted : if the bug is there, it will pop up again sooner or later, if not, the thread is worthless.

So, adding some new rules proposals :
- If a fixed bug thread in the Fixed Bugs section has the same issue next patch, bug reporters need to post in this same thread which will be moved up to Bug Reports root section

- If a fixed bug thread in the Fixed Bugs section has a different issue next patch, a new thread must be created in the Bug Reports root section.

[stassy]

Oops, first little problem I found when starting the big bug overhaul : there is no point in naming the new section "Bugs Fixed" if we will put all kind of threads (fixed, not fixable, confirmed, non confirmed) so it will just be renamed as "Archived Reports"

[Aswan jaguar]

About the non-confirmed,not a bug, it is no point to fill them there,put them in the fixed archive we still have.There is no point to have them in the "fixed/need checking" new subforum and just perplex things in my opinion.(you search for a bug and a non-confirmed or not a bug appears with nothing to offer you-just spend in vain your time.

Also,as Korath said and I agree with him there is no point to delete the archives maybe they are hard to work with but still of value.

The point to have a new forum is to make the work easier for our Developers from now on and not keep doing things like we did in the past and prolong the problem.The archives won't hurt them a bit where they are now.Besides if somebody does want to search/work with them just don't do it.In that we bug-hunters could give them a hand by making a reference (link to it)to a bug we found in there (if we thing that is relevant and can help them).SO NO NEED TO DELETE THEM.

[stassy]

Ok, no need to delete the fixed/unfixable but what about the confirmed-but-not-fixed stickied thread?

[Korath]

Also has value, and still an improvement over simply deleting the reports if Gargaroz isn't willing to ignore ignore them as separate inactive threads. (Which is fair, since he's still doing most of the work.) If it's just going to be me going through the old reports, I can keep track of which I've done separately if I need to.

[stassy]

Ok, move done, rules updated, this should have no impact on bug hunter habits since it's only some thread move/merge when needed so no need for big announcement, let's see how it goes.

[stassy]

PM2.dck finally checked, PDMN1.dck aka DGM next

[Althuna]

If you have a bug and it causes the game to crash, is there a way to find out what the bug was? Some kind of log file?

[stassy]

Yup, just reload the AUTOSAVE.E1M if duel and cross finger that savegame is not corrupted (you must do it immediately because this is an savegame file auto generated every turn, so if you play another game you lose the last game save.

[Althuna]

ok thanks