It is currently 12 Nov 2025, 01:24
   
Text Size

Shandalar - Program Bugs

2 different sources of lethal damage-1 regeneration is enough? (will not fix)

 

I don't remember if the rules have changed on this:I had enchanted AI's War Mammoth with Mire Blight in combat AI blocked with it a creature that could kill it also with normal combat damage,so it suffered lethal damage from combat damage but also the destroy effect from being dealt damage from Mire Blight effect.AI regenerated the War Mammoth with an Elephant Graveyard.Can this be done with one source of regeneration while it suffered 2 different causes of lethal damage.For the record AI had a 2nd Elephant Graveyard which wasn't used.
Last edited by Korath on 29 Jul 2016, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: component none->Duel Engine

Comments

Posted by Rawky » 15 May 2016, 23:43

The wording of Mire Blight makes it work as though anything that damages the enchanted creature has deathtouch, even if the damage source was not a creature. As such, deathtouch only requires a single regenerate effect to fix multiple damage/destroy effects when they happen simultaneously, as they would in the combat damage step.

If multiple state-based actions would destroy a creature at the same time (because it's been dealt lethal damage and been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch), a single regeneration effect will replace all of them and save the creature.

http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Death ... Deathtouch
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/ ... eid=190401
Last edited by Rawky on 15 May 2016, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarity

Posted by Korath » 29 Jul 2016, 19:24

No, the original report is valid. You're right that e.g. four points of deathtouch damage marked on a creature with four toughness only needs one regeneration shield, but wrong in claiming that Mire Blight works like deathtouch. Deathtouch isn't a triggered ability; it causes all nonzero damage to be considered lethal (rule 702).

What happens for Mire Blight under modern rules is:
  1. The creature is dealt damage.
  2. Mire Blight's effect triggers and waits to be put on the stack. (rule 119.4a)
  3. Lethal damage is marked on the creature. (rule 119.4b)
  4. Sometime later, a player would get priority. Just before that happens, state-based actions are checked. (rule 704.3)
  5. The creature is destroyed due to its lethal damage as part of state-based actions. (rule 704.5g)
  6. A regeneration shield kicks in and removes the lethal damage (and taps, and removes from combat, and so on). (rule 614.8)
  7. Just after #4 (when a player would get priority), triggered effects (including Mire Blight's) go on the stack. (rule 603.3)
  8. The player actually gets priority, and players can put more abilities on the stack.
  9. Some time later, Mire Blight's trigger resolves, causing the creature to be destroyed again. (This isn't a state-based action.) It then needs another regeneration shield.
The overall sequence is outlined in rule 116.

The problem in Shandalar (and Manalink; I haven't tested it, but I'll be amazed if the bug doesn't also exist there) is that the trigger happens immediately after damage is marked but before it destroys the creature. If the card is regenerated at that point, it unmarks all damage.

Would require a great deal of effort to fix now for not much gain now; but should fix itself once triggers use the stack properly.

Ticket details

  • Ticket ID: 1125
  • Project: Shandalar
  • Status: Will not fix
  • Component: Duel Engine
  • Project version: Dragon's Lair 1
  • Priority: Normal
  • Severity: Normal
  • Assigned to: (unassigned)
  • Reported by: Aswan jaguar
  • Reporter's tickets: List all tickets
  • Reported on: 10 May 2016, 19:26
  • Last visited by Korath » 29 Jul 2016, 19:48.
 

Main Menu

User Menu

Our Partners


Login Form