Shandalar - Program Bugs
AI redundantly casts Regeneration (and some unrewritten auras) (reviewed)
It's not a bug per-se, but causes a lot of missplays and strange plays and some decks/strategies to not work:
The AI seems to be prone to stack auras, often when it makes no sense to do so. I understand why this is, because stacking Holy/Unholy Strenght and other p/t affecting auras is one of the few really effective strategies for the AI. The problem occurs with auras like Regeneration or Lure, where multiples will get stacked on the same creature, and sometimes even on a creature which allready has these abilities (like Fungus Lord casting Regeneration on Wall of Brambles).
It will often prioritize this over casting creatures, so not only will the Fungus Lord not end up with regeneration on Fungusaur, but it will often not even play the Fungusaur. The whole thing also tends to set the AI up for board disadvantage.
Another thing is that the tendency to stack auras migh produce issues with Pacifism and simmilar removal auras (big chunk of available removal in blue and white), as the AI allready tends to stack Brainwash and Paralyze on the same creature. It's a big deal because it limits what sort of removal the AI can be given to stuff that's probably way too good to give the player easy access to (or otherwise dnying the player reasonable acess to blue and white Aura based removal which the player might want to have).
Can something be done about this, and if it involves a lot of work, can any of this work be done by someone not well wersed in programming? Ticking boxes/filling fields in a grid for implemented cards which are supposed to be stacked and which aren't, etc?
Can anything be done about this, apart from working over the AI deck pool and removing most auras that don't pump power and toughness entirely?
The AI seems to be prone to stack auras, often when it makes no sense to do so. I understand why this is, because stacking Holy/Unholy Strenght and other p/t affecting auras is one of the few really effective strategies for the AI. The problem occurs with auras like Regeneration or Lure, where multiples will get stacked on the same creature, and sometimes even on a creature which allready has these abilities (like Fungus Lord casting Regeneration on Wall of Brambles).
It will often prioritize this over casting creatures, so not only will the Fungus Lord not end up with regeneration on Fungusaur, but it will often not even play the Fungusaur. The whole thing also tends to set the AI up for board disadvantage.
Another thing is that the tendency to stack auras migh produce issues with Pacifism and simmilar removal auras (big chunk of available removal in blue and white), as the AI allready tends to stack Brainwash and Paralyze on the same creature. It's a big deal because it limits what sort of removal the AI can be given to stuff that's probably way too good to give the player easy access to (or otherwise dnying the player reasonable acess to blue and white Aura based removal which the player might want to have).
Can something be done about this, and if it involves a lot of work, can any of this work be done by someone not well wersed in programming? Ticking boxes/filling fields in a grid for implemented cards which are supposed to be stacked and which aren't, etc?
Can anything be done about this, apart from working over the AI deck pool and removing most auras that don't pump power and toughness entirely?
Last edited by Korath on 01 Oct 2015, 20:44, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: retitle from "The way AI handles Auras that add abilities is bugged in an obvious way"
Reason: retitle from "The way AI handles Auras that add abilities is bugged in an obvious way"
Comments
Posted by Korath » 01 Oct 2015, 20:56
I was tempted to just close this as not actionable, as it's overbroad and mostly speculates the existence of bugs in actionable cards based on observed behavior in unrewritten ones. (In particular, MicroProse's Brainwash contains almost no AI at all, and it'll enchant creatures with defender and cards already brainwashed all day long.) But that was probably caused by the misstatement in the bug name - while these auras might be obviously bugged, the way they are bugged is in no manner obvious. See here for some of the issues.
Plus, I can do something about auras that add regeneration, since they don't check for redundancy like other ability-granting ones and (rewritten) combat disablers like Pacifism and Paralyze do.
Plus, I can do something about auras that add regeneration, since they don't check for redundancy like other ability-granting ones and (rewritten) combat disablers like Pacifism and Paralyze do.
Posted by lujo » 02 Oct 2015, 07:58
Thank you very much. I went broad because I was trying to, from just my end, to figure out what the AI does with auras to help me make beter decisions for deckbuilding.
Regeneration and Lure effects are getting stacked, and so are Brainwash and Paralyze (which technically may seem like a legit option but too often isn't). Do you mind me adding other ability adding effects I notice getting pointlessly stacked here?
Regeneration and Lure effects are getting stacked, and so are Brainwash and Paralyze (which technically may seem like a legit option but too often isn't). Do you mind me adding other ability adding effects I notice getting pointlessly stacked here?
Posted by Korath » 05 Oct 2015, 02:24
If it's a combination of two different auras, then only if they were both written by me. A list of cards still using the original versions of Thieves Hideout.
If it's the exact same aura being cast multiple times on the same creature, I can probably discourage that with just a wrapper, without having to rewrite the card immediately.
If it's the exact same aura being cast multiple times on the same creature, I can probably discourage that with just a wrapper, without having to rewrite the card immediately.
Posted by lujo » 12 Oct 2015, 01:22
Update on this, similar cases might pop up more often in the future: AI just cast Regeneration and also Lure on a creature tapped down with Dehydration.
This might be the case of just Lure and Regeneration again which you fixed allready.
Or it might be the case of Dehydration simply not being affected by a robust system which would let the AI react sensibly such auras (various pacifism/tapdown effects) or such a system not being in place (trouble as it means the AI will try to buff stuff that is in most cases effectively dead against a lot of blue and white removal).
This might be the case of just Lure and Regeneration again which you fixed allready.
Or it might be the case of Dehydration simply not being affected by a robust system which would let the AI react sensibly such auras (various pacifism/tapdown effects) or such a system not being in place (trouble as it means the AI will try to buff stuff that is in most cases effectively dead against a lot of blue and white removal).
Posted by lujo » 12 Oct 2015, 13:09
The AI just stacked a second Giant Strenght on a creature permanently tapped down with Claustrophobia (even though it had other valid targets). Same happened with holy and unholy strenghts.
Last edited by lujo on 12 Oct 2015, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
Posted by lujo » 06 Nov 2015, 11:35
AI stacks Animate Wall on the same Wall. It also tends to cast it on 0 powered walls which is almost always a complete waste of a card.
Posted by Korath » 29 Jul 2016, 16:21
commit 566b7be43da3f0c0eceee637efede95cb78a3adc
Author: Korath <dgk@Dirge.none>
Date: Fri Jul 29 12:21:02 2016 -0400
[DL] #760: sign errors in check_disabling_aura(), aura_pt()
Author: Korath <dgk@Dirge.none>
Date: Fri Jul 29 12:21:02 2016 -0400
[DL] #760: sign errors in check_disabling_aura(), aura_pt()
7 Posts
• Page 1 of 1
Ticket details
- Ticket ID: 760
- Project: Shandalar
- Status: Reviewed
- Component: Individual Card
- Project version: Thieves Hideout 2
- Priority: Normal
- Severity: Normal
- Assigned to: (unassigned)
- Reported by: lujo
- Reporter's tickets: List all tickets
- Reported on: 30 Sep 2015, 09:24
- Last visited by Korath » 29 Jul 2016, 16:21.
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