Morbid Bloom vs. Soramaro

[FranAvalon]

Morbid Bloom is cast on Soramaro, First to Dream. It nets 8 tokens, even though the other player only had 7 cards in hand. Soramaro was 8/8 when it died, maybe that's the reason?


GameLog1289.txt (141 KB) 2010-10-17 12:40
Notes
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(0000580)
Hector
2010-10-17 20:25
(edited on: 2010-10-17 20:26)
Tried with Shapeshifter and Primal Clay. It is indeed using the toughness at the time the creature is gone to graveyard. And if the target card has gone to the graveyard by other means (like discard) without ever been put on the battlefield, then X becomes 0.

I do not know what X should be with these cards, since the ruling in the Alara Reborn FAQ does not cover these creatures exactly:


Quote:

If the creature card has "*" in its toughness, the ability that defines "*" works in all zones. [Alara Reborn FAQ 2009/04/30]


Primal Clay
Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter Cost= 4 AQ(U3)/R(R)/4(R)/5(R)/6(R)
Text (6th+errata): */*. ; As ~this~ enters the battlefield, it becomes your choice of a 3/3 artifact creature, a 2/2 artifact creature with flying, or a 1/6 Shapeshifter Wall artifact creature with defender. [Oracle 2009/07/08]

Shapeshifter
Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter Cost= 6 AQ(U1)/4(U)/5(U)
Text (5th+errata): */7-*. ; As ~this~ enters the battlefield, choose a number between 0 and 7. ; At the beginning of your upkeep, you may choose a number between 0 and 7. ; ~this~'s power is equal to the last chosen number and its toughness is equal to 7 minus that number. [Oracle 2009/07/08]

Edit: Typo

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(0000581)
Marek14
2010-10-18 05:27
For these cards (and similar), where the star has no meaning outside of battlefield, it's treated as zero. Which means Primal Clay is always 0/0 outside of battlefield and Shapeshifter is 0/7.

A handy reference list:

Cards where the star has meaning outside of the battlefield:
Adamaro, First to Desire
Aeon Chronicler
Allosaurus Rider
Altar Golem
An-Havva Constable
Ancient Ooze
Angry Mob
Aven Trailblazer
Aysen Crusader
Battle Squadron
Beast of Burden
Benalish Commander
Broodstar
Cantivore
Cognivore
Coiling Woodworm
Crowd of Cinders
Dakkon Blackblade
Dakmor Sorceress
Darksteel Juggernaut
Dauntless Dourbark
Dauthi Warlord
Detritivore
Doubtless One
Drift of the Dead
Drove of Elves
Faerie Swarm
Fungal Behemoth
Gaea's Avenger
Gaea's Liege (outside of the battlefield, it's obviously never attacking)
Heedless One
Horde of Boggarts
Ixidron
Jagged-Scar Archers
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Keldon Warlord
Kithkin Rabble
Kiyomaro, First to Stand
Kodama of the Center Tree
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
Krovikan Mist
Lhurgoyf
Lord of Extinction
Magnivore
Maraxus of Keld
Maro
Master of Etherium
Masumaro, First to Live
Matca Rioters
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Mortivore
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Nameless One
Nightmare
Nightstalker Engine
Overbeing of Myth
People of the Woods
Pestilence Rats
Plague Rats
Primalcrux
Reckless One
Revenant
Rimefeather Owl
Roiling Horror
Scion of the Wild
Serpent of the Endless Sea
Serra Avatar
Sima Yi, Wei Field Marshal
Soramaro, First to Dream
Soulless One
Soulsurge Elemental
Swarm of Rats
Sylvan Yeti
Tarmogoyf
Terravore
Tidewalker (I suppose that if you somehow manage to suspend it, the time counters would count towards its P/T)
Traproot Kami
Treefolk Seedlings
Uktabi Wildcats
Umbra Stalker
Wilderness Elemental
Yavimaya Kavu

Cards where the star is always 0 outside of the battlefield:
Aquamorph Entity
Chameleon Spirit
Entropic Specter
Haunting Apparition
Lost Order of Jarkeld
Molten Sentry
Mwonvuli Ooze (since there's no way to get age counters on it outside the battlefield)
Nameless Race
Pallimud
Primal Clay
Primal Plasma
Rusting Golem (since there's no way to get fade counters on it outside the battlefield)
Shapeshifter
Skyshroud War Beast
Sutured Ghoul
Wood Elemental

Special cases:
Caller of the Hunt - star is defined on stack (as the choice is additional cost). It's defined on the battlefield ONLY when Caller of the Hunt comes there after being cast. I think that Desertion will break the choice.
Minion of the Wastes - the same thing

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(0000582)
Hector
2010-10-18 20:49
Now that you mention it, I realized that my note about BotArena behavior was not entirely correct.

If Shapeshifter goes to graveyard by discard, its toughness is considered as 0 by Morbid Bloom (not X).