Evil Presence, Convincing Mirage, Phantasmal...

[Jean le Chauve]

« Thread Started on Jul 16, 2011, 10:00pm »
Evil Presence, Convincing Mirage, Phantasmal Terrain, and Sea's Claim.

These all turn the enchanted land into a basic land. They shouldn't.


Quote:
204.4c/305.8 Any land with the supertype "basic" is a basic land. Any land that doesn't have this supertype is a nonbasic land, even if it has a basic land type.



Quote:
305.7. If an effect changes a land's subtype to one or more of the basic land types, the land no longer has its old land type. It loses all abilities generated from its rules text and its old land types, and it gains the appropriate mana ability for each new basic land type. Note that this doesn't remove any abilities that were granted to the land by other effects. Changing a land's subtype doesn't add or remove any card types (such as creature) or supertypes (such as basic, legendary, and snow) the land may have. If a land gains one or more land types in addition to its own, it keeps its land types and rules text, and it gains the new land types and mana abilities.

Notes
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battlestar
2009-09-15 22:49
This also affects Glaciers and Mystic Compass now.

The problem seems to be that they remove all of the lands' types (_All) instead of just the land subtypes. If it left 'BasicLand' and 'NonbasicLand' alone, they would remain whichever types they're supposed to be. I'm not sure what part of the ability makes the new mana abilities work, though.

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battlestar
2009-09-15 22:49
I think there needs to be a _LandTypes mask, so these cards can remove all other land types instead of using _All. Then they wouldn't have to make the affected lands basic, because they'd still be basic or nonbasic (and legendary, for the legendary lands). The code that removes other abilities might need to be changed, and some of the bugs might remain, but it would at least remove one thing that's causing problems.

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battlestar
2009-09-15 22:49
I know it's very easy to propose solutions like this when I don't have to program them and don't even know how hard it would be to program them, but here goes:

I think these cards need new classes. Maybe CLandTypeEnchant/ment instead of CCardTypeEnchant/ment. Instead of providing a mask that the new land type(s) replace, it would be good to have a boolean function, where TRUE means it replaces all previous land types and removes all abilities (like most of these cards do), and FALSE meaning it doesn't remove them and only adds the new land type and mana ability (like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth). Or maybe it would need two, one telling it whether to remove the other land types, and one telling it whether to remove all other abilities. It could have a field for the type of mana the affected land(s) could be tapped for -- I believe the part that makes them into BasicLands currently gives them the appropriate mana ability, so that would have to be accomplished another way.

I suppose the simplicity of this depends on whether it's inherent to the engine that basic lands have no activated abilities aside from their mana abilities, and that's what removes the other activated abilities, or whether there's something in the code that explicitly removes those abilities.

Another thing: I couldn't test it before I made Blood Moon, but now that I have, I see that these effects don't remove triggered abilities, though they should. The only abilities that shouldn't be removed are "enters the battlefield tapped (unless)" abilities, the "As ~ enters the battlefield, you may..." abilities on the Ravnica shocklands and some Lorwyn-block lands, or the part of Llanowar Reborn's Graft ability that makes it enter the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter (though the Graft ability would be removed once it's in play, so it couldn't do anything with that counter). Those abilities happen 'as' the land enters the battlefield, so it's technically not on the battlefield yet.

Is something like this remotely possible?

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John Doe
2010-07-16 08:35
This goes hand in hand with this bug: link no more available [^]