TFM&G2K's Planeswalkers Pool v8g (12/Sep/2014)

[thefiremind]

Now, the first situation which causes issues is the interaction between Ajani Steadfast's ultimate and Sarkhan the mad's 0 ability. The issue is that when you use Ajani's ultimate, Sarkhan's 0 should only ever hit himself for 1 at most, no matter how high the CMC of the card is. However, this is not the case in game. When you use the 0 ability, it deals the "Correct" amount of damage while ignoring the prevention effect.

I had forgot to add Ajani Steadfast's emblem as a special condition in the code of Garruk Relentless and Sarkhan the Mad. They should both work as expected now (except for the "unpreventable-becomes-preventable" approximation).

The next issue is in Sorin, Lord of Innistrad it's self. As far as I have seen, whenever you ultimate Sorin at 7 loyalty or higher and then pass the turn, for as long as the planeswalker remains on the battlefield and you don't activate a minus ability, you can activate his +1 ability an arbitrarily high number of times in a single turn and then subsequently activate another one of his abilities. The string ends when you -2 or ultimate him, and the problem recurs over the rest of the game, every single turn.

This one really caught me off guard: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is treated like any other Planeswalker inside the manager (which shuts down abilities when needed), and his +1 ability is treated like any other +1 ability. I don't know what's going on! If someone has an idea, please let me know.

As a quick question before I go, is Sorin Markov impossible to code? Maybe it's the taking an opponent's turn for them, isn't it?

As stated on the first post, yes, it's because of that. Some "strange" effects would need support on the engine, we can't do everything we want just by editing the XML files.

Finally, I want to apologize if this was the incorrect place to post this.

This is the right place for any feedback about the Planeswalkers Pool.

have you looked at my message here? I've posted both ajani steadfast and manager modifications. what you think about this? you could maybe use your 'prevent damage method' from ajani but put them in manager instead? because i dont think the priority works well when there's multiple SOURCE_DEAL_DAMAGE replacement at the same time.

I saw that... just now. I'll implement your changes the next time I need to make modifications (by the way, do you have any idea for Sorin, Lord of Innistrad as explained above?).

[gorem2k]

The only way I have found is changing

Code: Select all

  <!-- 3. Planeswalkers' abilities can be played only once per turn -->
  <TRIGGERED_ABILITY replacement_effect="1">
    <TRIGGER value="ACTIVATED_ABILITY_PLAYED" simple_qualifier="objectyoucontrol">


TO

Code: Select all

  <!-- 3. Planeswalkers' abilities can be played only once per turn -->
  <TRIGGERED_ABILITY replacement_effect="1">
    <TRIGGER value="ABILITY_RESOLVED" simple_qualifier="objectyoucontrol">


I'm not sure if that will cause any problems with other cards though, but it fixed Sorin ultimate.

I guess it's because Sorin has a delayed trigger inside an activated ability. I still don't understand why it reset the activation count after the -6. perhaps the former trigger (ACTIVATED_ABILITY_PLAYED) was registering twice because of the delayDC? and it may be safer to use ABILITY_PLAYED in case it gets countered but I haven't tried it yet.

nope, ABILITY_PLAYED does the same effect as ACTIVATED_ABILITY_PLAYED

[thefiremind]

The only way I have found is changing

Code: Select all

  <!-- 3. Planeswalkers' abilities can be played only once per turn -->
  <TRIGGERED_ABILITY replacement_effect="1">
    <TRIGGER value="ACTIVATED_ABILITY_PLAYED" simple_qualifier="objectyoucontrol">


TO

Code: Select all

  <!-- 3. Planeswalkers' abilities can be played only once per turn -->
  <TRIGGERED_ABILITY replacement_effect="1">
    <TRIGGER value="ABILITY_RESOLVED" simple_qualifier="objectyoucontrol">


I'm not sure if that will cause any problems with other cards though, but it fixed Sorin ultimate.

I guess it's because Sorin has a delayed trigger inside an activated ability. I still don't understand why it reset the activation count after the -6. perhaps the former trigger (ACTIVATED_ABILITY_PLAYED) was registering twice because of the delayDC? and it may be safer to use ABILITY_PLAYED in case it gets countered but I haven't tried it yet.

nope, ABILITY_PLAYED does the same effect as ACTIVATED_ABILITY_PLAYED

With ABILITY_RESOLVED I'm afraid it would count resolving of triggered abilities from emblems as resolved abilities as well. Moreover, if we really want to prepare for the new Teferi Planeswalker, ABILITY_RESOLVED shouldn't be an option, otherwise the manager would allow to play abilities as many times as we want until we let one resolve (when they can be played at instant speed).

[MikalMooni]

You guys are bad-a**! Thanks for the speedy reply! Is there a way to mark this thread, so I can look into it from time-to-time? I hope the Sorin Issue is resolved soon.

I stress test a lot of different builds, so I will let you guys know if I find anything fishy in the future.

Keep up the great work!

- Mike.

[gorem2k]

Sorin is very odd. there's an ability somewhere that prevent from triggering his +1 activation. I can't find what

[MikalMooni]

Greetings, G2K and TFM. Mike here, once again with more troubleshooting info.

So, I have done some more work and discovered that Venser, the Sojourner is not supported by The Chain Veil. I believe that he isn't even being considered as a planeswalker by The Chain Veil, too, since I take 2 damage even if I activate him.

That Build is Esper Artifacts, with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Venser, the Sojourner as well as a variety of other value cards like Contagion Clasp, SoF&F, Pilgrim's Eye, and others.

I played a game where I had SoF&F on a Solemn Simulacrum, Venser, the Sojourner exiling Ensnaring Bridge, The Chain Veil in hand, and nine lands (Basics). I swung in after tapping out for Tangle Wire and The Chain Veil, hit, untapped, activated The Chain Veil, and then... Nothing. No option to exile another permanent I owned. I was forced to pass the turn, and then I took two damage (As expected, because The Chain Veil only checks the status of a planeswalker's ability AFTER it exists on the battlefield). However, when I took my next turn, I made sure to activate the Chain veil BEFORE I did ANYTHING ELSE with my main phase. Then, I activated Venser's +2 once more, targeting Ensnaring Bridge. Once again, I did not receive an option to activate a second ability that turn. I passed the turn, took two damage, and then I reported it here.

So, I'm thinking that this is a problem with Venser himself, not having an exception for The Chain Veil's ability. However, I suppose you two would know more than I do, so I won't conjecture further.

Good Luck!

- Mike.

[gorem2k]

I tested Venser + Chain Veil with latest version of PLW pool.
No problem on my side. If I didn't activate Venser, the chain veil hit for 2. and if I did activate its +2 loyalty, I received no damage.

Could you post a list of all the .WAD you have in your game directory? Perhaps there's an outdated Chain Veil, Venser, or function that cause an override?

here's my list:

DATA_CORE.WAD
DATA_DECKS_D14.WAD
DATA_DECKS_E14.WAD
DATA_DECKS_F14_PACK1.WAD
DATA_DECKS_F14_PACK2.WAD
DATA_DECKS_F14_PACK3.WAD
DATA_DLC_0001.WAD
DATA_DLC_0002.WAD
DATA_DLC_0003.WAD
DATA_DLC_0004.WAD
Data_DLC_8192_Core_Artwork.wad
Data_DLC_8192_Core_Cards.wad
Data_DLC_8192_ManualMana.wad
DATA_DLC_8192_ObjectDC.wad
Data_DLC_Core_Fixes.wad
DATA_DLC_S61.wad
DATA_DLC_S62.wad
DATA_DLC_TFM_ART.wad
DATA_DLC_TFM_CARDS.wad
DATA_DLC_TFM_MEDIA.wad
DATA_DLC_TFM_OTHER.wad
DATA_DLC_PLW.wad
DATA_DLC_PLW_CS.wad (if you don't have the latest CS, there's a chance it has an old version of The Chain Veil, if you don't have this wad at all then it's ok! you can also look in RSN deck builder for dupes)

you could try to temporarily move other unused wads in a backup directory and re-test using a minimum of wads.

[MikalMooni]

Whew. Okay, well, I generate a BUNCH of user made ones, but I only downloaded the PLW v8e a couple of days ago. I will look into my directory and see where I have issues.

... Wait, I think I removed The original PLW pool I had installed. IT was only a delete, however. Could it be that There was a registry entry for the original Venser, and that the Updated Chain Veil isn't justifying Venser's new registry tag??

Well, anyhow, here's my ridiculously long list of things.

DATA_DECKS_D14
DATA_DECKS_E14
DATA_DECKS_F14 Packs 1-3

DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_AFFINITY
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_BANESLAYER_CONTROL
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_BURN
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_COUNTERBALANCE
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_DEAD_GUY_ALE
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_ESPER_DEATHBLADE
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_FAERIES
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_GOBLINS
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_HELM
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_JUNK_AND_TAXES
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_MAVERICK
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_MUC
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_POX
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_PUNISHING_JUND
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_REANIMATOR
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_SHARDLESS_BUG
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_STOMPY
DATA_DECKS_LEGACY_ZOO

DATA_DLC_0001
DATA_DLC_0002
DATA_DLC_0003
DATA_DLC_0004

DATA_DLC_333_Content_Pack_Enabler
DATA_DLC_501_Content_Pack_Enabler

DATA_DLC_587_THEROS
DATA_DLC_588_BORN_OF_THE_GODS

Data_DLC_812_Content_Pack_Enabler
Data_DLC_1000_Content_Pack_Enabler
Data_DLC_1020_Content_Pack_Enabler

Data_DLC_8192_Core_Artwork
Data_DLC_8192_Core_Cards
Data_DLC_8192_ManualMana
Data_DLC_8192_ObjectDC

Data_DLC_Core_Fixes

DATA_DLC_KEV
DATA_DLC_KEV_EVENTDECKS
DATA_DLC_KEV_PACK1
DATA_DLC_KEV_PACK2
DATA_DLC_KEV_PACK3

DATA_DLC_LEGACY

DATA_DLC_PLW_1 (New pool, Renamed before I deleted the old one)

DATA__DLC_SPELLSHAPERS

DATA_CORE
Data_Decks_2013_GXSC_ART
Data_Decks_2013_GXSC_MAIN
Data_100048_WASTE_NOT

And after that, there are about 32 custom WADS, as well as 13 other file folders. They were supposed to be wads, and function as such, but do not show up as WADS in the list. It's extremely weird, really. Not much sense in it at all.

Oh, I am using Riiak Shi Nal DotP 2014 Deck Builder - 2013, English (US) v1.4.0.0.

[gorem2k]

Ok, well just make sure you only have one DATA_DLC_PLW.wad , latest version 8f. As for Sorin, I removed PLW_ShutDownDoublingSeason() from its first activated ability and now it seems to work. but we shouldn't remove this, tfm might have a workaround for this. it should be fixed in next update, hopefully.

[thefiremind]

As for Sorin, I removed PLW_ShutDownDoublingSeason() from its first activated ability and now it seems to work. but we shouldn't remove this, tfm might have a workaround for this. it should be fixed in next update, hopefully.

That doesn't make any sense at all, why do all the other Planeswalkers work without problems then? And no, I don't have any workaround, I still can't understand what's wrong.

[gorem2k]

As for Sorin, I removed PLW_ShutDownDoublingSeason() from its first activated ability and now it seems to work. but we shouldn't remove this, tfm might have a workaround for this. it should be fixed in next update, hopefully.

That doesn't make any sense at all, why do all the other Planeswalkers work without problems then? And no, I don't have any workaround, I still can't understand what's wrong.

maybe we could shutdown doubling season from manager inside a COUNTERS_CHANGED trigger... i'm also bugged about this. somehow I hear a loud noise when I activate +1 on Sorin, that noise doesn't happen on Elspeth or any other I tested.

I've isolated the part that cause a problem:

Code: Select all

    <TARGET tag="CARD_QUERY_CHOOSE_PERMANENT_TO_DESTROY" definition="0" compartment="0" count="3" up_to="1" />
    <TARGET_DEFINITION id="0">
    local filter = ClearFilter()
    filter:Set_Or()
    filter:Add(FE_TYPE, OP_IS, CARD_TYPE_CREATURE)
    local subFilter = filter:AddSubFilter_And()
        subFilter:Add( FE_CARD_INSTANCE, OP_NOT, EffectSource() )
       PLW_FilterNameSet(subFilter, "PLANESWALKERS", true)
    </TARGET_DEFINITION>


I still don't know what is wrong, but if you remove this part it works. I suspect it's because of a target tag interference (even though it shouldn't). maybe we can add a LUA condition to see if there's at least one permanent to destroy but I don't see the point. and lastly, another maybe, it needs a permanent filtering function??

I isolated a smaller part:

Code: Select all

<!--
    local subFilter = filter:AddSubFilter_And()
       subFilter:Add( FE_CARD_INSTANCE, OP_NOT, EffectSource() )
       PLW_FilterNameSet(subFilter, "PLANESWALKERS", true)
-->


if I don't filter for planeswalkers, it works...

another try at explaining this mystery, maybe it's because manager rule #3 is applying CHARACTERISTIC_CANT_USE_ACTIVATED_ABILITIES to Sorin while it's not done resolving? could we use a delayDC (pass the TriggerObject) in a separate ABILITY_RESOLVED so the card can do its thing?

Nope, can't do that. anyway, I think it would be best to include a special edition Doubling Season into the pool. that way, we can remove all the PLW_ShutDownDoublingSeason() from each planeswalkers and Sorin will work fine. we only have to check if the COUNTERS_CHANGED inside Doubling Season is coming from a planeswalkers or not and set the 2*amount accordingly.

Maybe it would be even possible to add an hack inside manager to replace non-planewalkers compatible Doubling Season entering the battlefield (or replace all of them at the step 0 of game?) with the special one.. so decks that use old version would be forced to use it? i don't know..

Disregard my last comment

[Evalis]

Vraska the Unseen's +1 doesn't appear to work.. when she goes to the graveyard. I think the trigger stops when she's dead. Though I'm not sure if it works normally. First time something has attacked her while I had that up.

[thefiremind]

Vraska the Unseen's +1 doesn't appear to work.. when she goes to the graveyard. I think the trigger stops when she's dead.

That is something I never thought about, but it should have been expected since I'm using Riiak's ObjectDC and they get erased when the card changes zone. Finding another way to make Vraska work will be another headache and I'm not working on it anytime soon. Time to add the bug to the known bugs on the first post.

[RiiakShiNal]

Well, there is still a way to make it work with ObjectDC. You can protect the card pointer in the chest so that it won't get cleared. This function should work for protecting the pointer (and subsequently the chest) if you are just using RSN_ObjectDC() (won't work with RSN_GetObjectDC() as it doesn't accept a parameter):

RSN_ProtectObjectDC | Open

Code: Select all

RSN_ProtectObjectDC = function()
   local oDC = nil
   -- Get our fake ObjectDC repository.
   local oObjectDCChest = MTG():DuelDataChest():Get_Chest( RSN_REGISTER_OBJECTDC_CHEST )
   if (oObjectDCChest == nil) then
      -- Repository doesn't exist so create it.
      oObjectDCChest = MTG():DuelDataChest():Make_Chest( RSN_REGISTER_OBJECTDC_CHEST )
   end

   -- Find out how many objectDCs we have stored.
   local nCount = oObjectDCChest:Int_Get( RSN_REGISTER_OBJECTDC_CHEST_COUNT )

   -- Look though our stored fake ObjectDCs to see if we have one for this card.
   for i = 1, nCount do
      -- Get our stored ObjectDC repository item.
      local oTestDC = oObjectDCChest:Get_Chest( i )
      if (oTestDC ~= nil) then
         -- Get the card pointer for this ObjectDC
         local oTestCard = oTestDC:Get_CardPtr( 0 )

         -- Check to see if it is our object.
         if (oTestCard == Object()) then
            -- This is the right repository item so protect our pointer so it doesn't get lost crossing zones.
            oTestDC:Protect_CardPtr( 0 )

            -- We found what we were looking for so exit the loop.
            break
         end
      end
   end
end

I guess it is about time I revisited the ObjectDC functions and looked into releasing a new version with a protection function to allow for protecting the chest across zone changes.

Edit: Oops... Found and fixed a bug that was preventing it from actually protecting the ObjectDC chest.

[NeoAnderson]

I guess it is about time I revisited the ObjectDC functions and looked into releasing a new version with a protection function to allow for protecting the chest across zone changes.

And i think i already know why you are saying so...