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I have an interest in playing, though not interested in the rarity rule.

Decks could just be divided by format (Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage).

If you make a rarity rule, then a few decks will prevail ported from Pauper (mostly storm).

I have no idea how I would make it but I trust your method!

One question though. I'm guessing the rarity count also includes the lands? One Stomping Ground and I have pretty much used my rare spot?

Whether or not lands followed the rarity rule (as well as all other rules) would be up to the consensus. I don't like the idea of a rarity rule at all, but I also understand the need for it.

I'm all for simply separating decks by format. I actually made the framework for a tool recently which was meant to help with format and legality stuff. The intent of it was simply to drop a deck wad onto it and it would tell you which formats the deck was legal in. I may go back and revisit it. Probably make it so you can also drop multiple decks and get a file telling you the results, including which cards are valid in which formats. (I use cards very freely when I'm making decks and have no idea which cards are allowed and which ones aren't in the various formats).

So, anyone who wants to take part needs to let us know what your thoughts are on the rules, including:
-Should there be a rarity based rule?
-If there is a rarity based rule, what kind would you prefer (per card, per deck, point-buy, some combination, or something else entirely)?
-If there is a rarity based rule, should that rule apply to lands?
-I feel like decks should definitely be split up by their legal formats. Do you agree?

When I originally heard of this I thought it would be something like we pick a mod and use decks from that. Maybe some mods don't have balanced decks but I know I've tried to keep mine balanced (they're basically modern legal with some extra cards added for synergy and balance purposes). I would've been interested in something like that maybe, but not building decks just for the event -- too much effort.

Changing topic, if anyone would like to play multiplayer with my mod let me know, because I'd like to test the balance.

nivmizzet1 wrote:When I originally heard of this I thought it would be something like we pick a mod and use decks from that. Maybe some mods don't have balanced decks but I know I've tried to keep mine balanced (they're basically modern legal with some extra cards added for synergy and balance purposes). I would've been interested in something like that maybe, but not building decks just for the event -- too much effort.

Changing topic, if anyone would like to play multiplayer with my mod let me know, because I'd like to test the balance.

That was my original idea as well. It wasn't until balance was mentioned that I Thought about it.

As for making decks for the event, I didn't plan to make decks from scratch. I planned to take my decks and modify them as needed. Still, I can totally agree with you there.

I think a rarity rule would defeat the purpose of modding. We modded so we could play the cards we wanted, not with the restrictions the game gave us.

I'm pretty much addicted to building decks, so I can't say I understand the 'too much effort' argument.

Going against my own suggestion, dividing it by format could still ruin the fun of playing casual decks. Take for example a vampire deck which could be Modern legal, it probably wouldn't be able to hold a candle against Amulet Bloom. I think, like it is divided in Xmage, decks could also be divided by either Casual or Competitive. But that can't be coded into a program, that could only be user-defined.

I think we should decide if we're going to play casual or competitive decks, otherwise, spikes like me (no intent to sound arrogant here) we would ruin other people's day. I'm so deep in spike territory that even if we decide on casual play I would do an internet search for top performing casual or budget decks in the decided formats.

Niv-mizzet: Was your mod the one that had an elf deck called "Elfrakul: Believe it"?

addict insane wrote:I'm pretty much addicted to building decks, so I can't say I understand the 'too much effort' argument.

Don't get me wrong, I love making decks, and I get addicted sometimes too (I just added 8 decks to my mod that I didn't even plan on making) -- but it does take time, and I don't have a lot of time at the moment, especially not to make a 'throwaway' deck that I'd only use once.

addict insane wrote:Niv-mizzet: Was your mod the one that had an elf deck called "Elfrakul: Believe it"?

That's the one.

I see good arguments for both rarity rule and for format rule.

I like Xander's idea best though. Rarity rule could give us balance, which is something formats also give, but would also give us flexibility in the cards we can use.

No rule is perfect and there will always be issues but I guess we can sort them out as they appear.

The reason I wouldn't want to play standard or modern is because of what was stated above: i like making my own decks but would get destroyed if someone shows up with a Splinter Twin deck or something like that LOL.

Stuff like Storm is very well known for being incredibly broken so I'm not sure we would have fun having it in our format.

At the end of the day I just want to play some games with you guys and have fun. Even if I lose a lot hehe, I'm ok with losing, so let's see if we can at least get something together and make it better as we go

I hope I don't sound too harsh in m criticism to Nivmizzet's decks, so I'll start with the one I liked.

I beat my own record of maximum damage with the Elfrakul deck. I reached 6000, then realized I could reach more than that, but that it would imply a lot of tapping and untapping of creatures.

I liked it because even though it had the clunky Priest of Titania it still was a solid turn 3-4 win. As I remember it, I consistently won with it turn 3.

There were other decks that had a lot of illegal cards such as 4 Mox Sapphire and I don't like playing cards that aren't legal in any format, not even Vintage.

Most of the other decks die to Avacyn's Glory, and die hard to it. I don't remember beating Avacyn's with decks other than the ones you considered broken. Me being a Spike, I only play against Avacyn's, and hate losing to it.

Did you put your new decks into the CW decks? Maybe those are nice. Do they beat Avacyn's?

EDIT: Also, how will we handle sideboarding?

addict insane wrote:There were other decks that had a lot of illegal cards such as 4 Mox Sapphire and I don't like playing cards that aren't legal in any format, not even Vintage.

BTW, I don't put any moxes or Power Nine in my decks

Just thought I would make that clear lol

Just play some Legacy stuff like Brainstorm and Swords to Plowshares sometimes but most of the time I like to go with less powerful stuff to make games interesting against the AI.

Lands should not share the rarity rule (lands should all be 0). Each dual land (except the originals) have a down side.

I would essentially consider mox cards lands and not considerate of the rule because they can be destroyed more easily than lands and they only produce mana.

I want to be more conservative with land like cards and more liberal with more power house cards.

I'm working on a formula with converted mana costs, colors and rarity that would be easier to work with and more agreed apon. For instance a 5 color deck needs more mana support than a monocolor deck and is essentially made impossible with the current format.

Sometimes I go for powerful combos, but I usually make focused decks that are built around an idea rather than being powerful (they still usually turn out well). Like, I made a Bolster-Renown deck recently that ended up with a lot of equipment, too. It's pretty good, but certainly not overpowered. It's fun, though. And once it does get ahead, it's pretty tough to beat. Another one, however, has a good chance of murdering almost every deck I've pitted it against. Glimpse of Ashiok can defeat all but the fastest of decks and those that win some way other than creatures. It constantly wipes the board and steals the few creatures not killed (and a few that are). It wins by milling too fast for most decks to cope with.

But they never have moxes or black lotuses or anything. While I can see your point about how they're easier to destroy, the thing that makes lands balanced while the moxes aren't balanced is the fact that you can only play one land per turn, while you could drop every mox in your opening hand all at once. The decks do, however, often contain Sol Ring (usually 4 copies). I've actually been meaning to change that but never got around to it (I only noticed relatively recently it's not legal).

Moxen are not even close to being lands. There's a reason why they are limited in the most powerful format in Magic.

Regarding making it interesting against the AI, just this morning I was playing with my Vintage Storm deck against Avacyn's. I won fist game but the second one I had a slower hand and, in 4 turns, Avacyn's had a 5/5 Champion of the Parish and a full board with me at 7 life. If I hadn't drawn a tutor next turn I would have lost.

Avacyn's is disgustingly good. You can play Legacy decks against it and still have a close match. Even Vintage. I still can't believe I played a Vintage deck against Avacyn's and I almost lost.

As far as lands go, the rarity rule wouldn't prevent mana fixing too badly. Khans of Tarkir and Return to Ravnica both had a 10 card cycle of common dual lands (Thornwood Falls and Azorius Guildgate), Eighth Edition had a 5 card cycle of uncommons (Salt Marsh), and assuming that we go with the main expansions, not special ones, then Dissension had (Simic Growth Chamber). The snow lands like Boreal Shelf are common, but are also only a 5-card cycle, not the full 10.

For triple color production, the only ones I know of are at least uncommon, but you've got the full 10-card cycle between Shards of Alara (Seaside Citadel) and Khans of Tarkir (Sandsteppe Citadel).

It's also possible to get some 5-color production at common level for a cost such as Rupture Spire, Shimmering Grotto (sort of), Transguild Promenade, or Unknown Shores, but that would mostly require either using your rare slots, going for the common dual taplands, or using artifacts.

Also, what should we do about cards that have multiple rarities available? I think I'd prefer to be more lenient: you can use the least rarity it's been available as (excluding possibly Alpha, Beta, Revised, and Unlimited since they were still working out the kinks back then).

Moxes are among the most powerful cards in all of Magic, you drop your land plus one or two moxes in turn one and you can do crazy stuff. Same goes for Sol Ring.

The ability to generate mana ahead of the natural curve is the easiest way to do broken stuff.

Five mana demon in turn 3 and stuff like that.