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I created a instants/sorcery decks includes delver of secrets, works fine playing against AI playing the standard DOTP 2014 decks but around 50% of the community wad decks (Being played by the AI) for no apparent reason prevent delver of secrets from transforming?

There is no card in play at the time that prevents this transformation (Usually i can get delver to transform on turn 2 or 3)

An example deck that prevents the transformation is Dismiss Into Dream, whenever I play against that deck i cant transform delver of secrets.

Any ideas?

Thx. Cole.

O.k done a quick edit to Dismiss The Dream deck using the deck editor, I changed it's 'personality' to a default DOTP 2014 one and used Jace.... worked!? I revealed an instant and delver of secrets transformed?

s.t.r.a.n.g.e!!!!

Shall play a few more with Dismiss The Dream and see if that has actually fixed it?

But why would a custom personality screw with this particular card is the big question, i suspect something else is causing the issue so need to test further...

cole.

UPDATE:

Four more tests with dimiss the dream - NONE TRANSFORMED?? really confused now
Three tests with the Chant of the Mul Daya DOTP 2014 standard default deck = all transformed!

So something, or some code, or some bugged card is causing an issue or delver of secrets is bugged? whichever, i need your help now guys?

thx. cole.

I'm looking into this now (I started just a couple minutes after posting, but I had to go eat), but so far, based on what you've found, it sounds like one of the managers might be causing issues.

Many cards create a manager token. They're invisible, and each player only gets one copy of any single manager token. They can't be interacted with, and they never generally cause problems. There are about 10 of them, though only 2 or 3 usually exist in any given game (planeswalkers, for example, get a manager). The manager allows certain features of certain cards to work (for planeswalkers, it enforces all planeswalker rules, such as one ability per turn, attacking planeswalkers, and planeswalker legendary rule, among others).

No base game cards use manager tokens. So, if it's a manager token causing problems, then no base game deck would cause the issue. However, many custom decks would. That doesn't really explain why it wouldn't affect the deck that's actually got Delver of Secrets in it.

I suspect the personality change was just happenstance.

Alright, so I've all but confirmed that it's a manager. The planeswalker manager specifically.

Against Dismiss the Dream (as it was, with planeswalkers): Didn't transform.
Against Dismiss the Dream (without planeswalkers): Did transform.
Against Mardu Raiders (my deck, no planeswalkers): Did transform.
Against Elven Superiority (my deck, has planeswalkers): Didn't transform.

Not sure yet why.

Alright, so this is actually caused by a bug I encountered awhile back and forgot about. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=17403&p=182305

Delver of Secrets, as well as 10 other transform cards, were set up to use two actions at the start of the game to prepare for the card to transform throughout the game. Planeswalkers, and all other managers, are set up to use one RTA in the same Start-of-Game type trigger. This confuses the game, and it never fires the second action, so the transforming preparation is only half done. So, it ends up not working.

All 11 have been fixed. Thanks for doing those tests. They made this a lot easier to spot. I'm looking now for any other cards in the CW that might cause issues here.

EDIT: Found 49 cards that might have had issues due to this bug. Almost all of them have been fixed. However, the EDH commander cards made by migookman have not been fixed, because I don't want to risk messing with them until I fully understand how they work and that I won't break anything. So, 38 out of 49 were fixed (there are 11 commanders). All others should be safe from now on. They were mostly convoke cards.

Hey nice one!

Kind of understand some a little bit over my head as I'm not too familiar with the coding/mechanics of the game engine, but glad to help anyways!

So do i need to just re-download the community wad decks again yes?

cheers for that m8

No, the fix isn't in the decks. It's in the CW Core. The core is repacking right now (I just told it to repack early as I opened this thread). It should be up in about 5 to 10 minutes. If you're not set up for automatic updating, then redownload the core then. If you are, then just wait a short while and it should be fixed, hopefully.

CW Core gotcha.

Thx again for sorting this if any more probs that i cant find a mention off already, I will post back here for you professionals to look at it! lol.

Anyway top man! Cheers.

Cole.

Delver of Secrets doesn't, and never has, transformed for me, sadly.

EDIT: OK, now it just transformed. I thought everything was up to date, but I guess it wasn't. I sync'd again and now it's working -- even against a deck with a planeswalker.