[fixed/closed]Walls and Defenders issues

[Aswan jaguar]

Type Defenders that are seen as Walls by Rolling Stones they are not found as Walls to Animate Wall though:

1- Haunted Guardian
2- Drift of Phantasms
3- Guardians of Akrasa
4- Opal-Eye,Konda's Yojimbo
5- Souls of the Faultless
6- Soulsworn Jury
7- Elder Land Wurmwrong entry

Type Defenders (about half of them)that are found as Walls to Cockatrice,Greater Basilisk,(Infernal Medusa when it is blocked only) (Venom works fine with some of them-I didn't test all of them against Venom though) and as such they are not destroyed at the end of combat as they should as they are not Walls:

1- Wakestone Gargoyle (Venom fine)
2- Trestle Troll
3- Vertigo Spawn
4- Souls of the Faultless (Venom fine)
5- Sprouting Phytohydra
6- Thallid Shell-Dweller
7- Rage Nimbus
8- Soulsworn Jury
9- Slithering Shade
10- Murmuring Phantasm
11- Manor Gargoyle
12- Perimeter Captain
13- Opal-Eye,Konda's Yojimbo
14- Order of the Stars
15- Gatecreeper Vine
16- Guardian of the Ages
17- Doorkeeper
18- Axebane Guardian
19- Basilica Guards
20- Bonded Fetch
21- Clinging Anemones
22- Dragon Egg
23- Corpse Blockade
24- Drift of Phantasms

[Aswan jaguar]

If not all of the above but the majority of the above bugs are wrong ct_all entries things I could easily fix myself and help you with that freeing you time for important stuff.(besides that I want to make a huge work on missing and wrong entries to both csv files)so my question is:
Could you establish a working place like the one you have for developing the code so the changes to the csv files and the other files that need to be updates cards.dat ,etc are made in active time and more people can work with them at the same time? So there is no need for files to be transferred from person to person?
edit - of course I would need some guidance on how to use such a program.

[Korath]

There's, hm, five substantial barriers to that that spring to mind.

1. There are (a few) quality git tutorials that are oriented towards programmers who are already familiar with version control. And there are really terrible git tutorials that are oriented towards programmers that aren't and towards nonprogrammers. And that's about it.
2. Version control isn't really suited to large, frequently-updated binary files, like the canonical xls's; and the csvs might as well be binaries from the size of the diffs I've been seeing. There's programs that attempt to produce useful diffs from xls files, but none of the ones I've tried approach production quality.
3. The machine we're stuck hosting our remote repository on is extremely latent and bandwidth-limited.
4. You won't be able to test any changes you make unless a) you can compile the entire project or b) we haven't added any new cards yet.
5. I don't have access to them myself.

[BAgate]

bump, still bugged as of PTT. Do we have an answer on if this is a csv problem or a code one?

[Aswan jaguar]

I tested 4-5 cards and no it is not as I thought a csv issue.

[Korath]

Defender/can't-attack effects, can-attack-despite-defender effects, and creature type Wall were an unholy mess, with six different ways to prevent attacking, three can-attack-anyway (plus a couple instances of just removing some subset of the methods that prevented attacking, instead of overriding them), and three to indicate or check for type Wall; some of each could only work as intrinsic to a card type, and some of each could only work as modifying an existing card in play. (This isn't anybody's fault; it's clear that every step along the way to get here made sense, going all the way back to the 1996 MicroProse code when defender and wall was the same thing, nearly every creature card had a unique creature type, and almost none of the types mattered for anything.)

For example, as relates to this bug, Rolling Stones overrode the "Family in ct_all.csv is 0" way of being a Wall and unable to attack, and Animate Wall could only target walls set with "one of New Types 1 to New Types 6 in .csv are 0xD1" way of being a Wall and only overrode the "Family in ct_all.csv is 0" way of preventing attack.

We're down to exactly one way to be defender now (settable in csvs, or addable or removable in-game the same way e.g. flying is); two to prevent attacking without being defender (one suited for effects like "Foo can't attack until end of turn", one allowing arbitrary checks at the time of attack for e.g. "Bar can't attack unless defending player controls a Swamp"); one for "Baz can attack as if it didn't have defender"; and one way to check if something's a Wall. (The other two ways are set in the csvs and internally still, but never looked at. The still-valid one is by setting New Types.)

So this should all be either fixed, or broken in completely different ways.