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[fixed/closed]Rainbow Vale

PostPosted: 11 Oct 2015, 09:23
by Korath
Describe the Bug:
Rainbow Vale doesn't change controller (but should) if:
    A) it's changed into a different card between being tapped for mana and end of turn (such as by an Evil Presence); or
    B) you tap it for mana, Donate it the same turn, and the AI taps it for mana in his turn.
It does change controller (but shouldn't) if:
    C) you click it to tap for mana, but select cancel.
And, irritatingly,
    D) It has a spurious enters-the-battlefield trigger that does nothing.

Which card did behave improperly ?
(Just how often is this question not redundant?)

Which update are you using?(date,name)Which type(Duel,Gauntlet,Sealed Deck)
FRF.

What exactly should be the correct behavior/interaction ?
Exactly the opposite of what it does, in all four cases.

Are any other cards possibly affected by this bug ?
I expect any other control-changer would work for B. I'm certain any other card-changer would for A.

Re: Rainbow Vale

PostPosted: 11 Oct 2015, 10:25
by Aswan jaguar
I confirm B and C bugs.I don't know how to test D.
About A I don't know if there more rules to it but lands that change land types to another type like Evil Presence does have also the rule:
The enchanted land loses its existing land types and any abilities printed on it.So Rainbow Vale loses it's ability to change ownership and it's end of turn trigger will never trigger so it seems to be working correctly.

Re: [confirmed-B,C bugs]Rainbow Vale

PostPosted: 11 Oct 2015, 12:18
by Korath
Once you've tapped it for mana, it's already created its delayed trigger. It doesn't matter what happens to the Vale after that, so long as the object still exists (that is, it hasn't moved to another zone) and the trigger isn't countered by Stifle or similar after it goes onto the stack at eot. It's like trying to save the Savannah Lions that your opponent pinged with Prodigal Sorcerer by casting Swords to Plowshares on the Sorcerer.
Rules for delayed triggered abilities, in their entirety for context; 603.7c is the part in question | Open
603.7. An effect may create a delayed triggered ability that can do something at a later time. A delayed triggered ability will contain "when," "whenever," or "at," although that word won't usually begin the ability.

603.7a Delayed triggered abilities come from spells or other abilities that create them on resolution, or are created as the result of a replacement effect being applied. That means a delayed triggered ability won't trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.
Example: Part of an effect reads "When this creature leaves the battlefield," but the creature in question leaves the battlefield before the spell or ability creating the effect resolves. In this case, the delayed ability never triggers.
Example: If an effect reads "When this creature becomes untapped" and the named creature becomes untapped before the effect resolves, the ability waits for the next time that creature untaps.

603.7b A delayed triggered ability will trigger only once - the next time its trigger event occurs - unless it has a stated duration, such as "this turn."

603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won't affect it. (Note that if that object left that zone and then returned, it's a new object and thus won't be affected. See rule 400.7.)
Example: An ability that reads "Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step" will exile the permanent even if it's no longer a creature during the next end step. However, it won't do anything if the permanent left the battlefield before then.

603.7d If a spell creates a delayed triggered ability, the source of that delayed triggered ability is that spell. The controller of that delayed triggered ability is the player who controlled that spell as it resolved.

603.7e If an activated or triggered ability creates a delayed triggered ability, the source of that delayed triggered ability is the same as the source of that other ability. The controller of that delayed triggered ability is the player who controlled that other ability as it resolved.

603.7f If a static ability generates a replacement effect which causes a delayed triggered ability to be created, the source of that delayed triggered ability is the object with that static ability. The controller of that delayed triggered ability is the same as the controller of that object at the time the replacement effect was applied.

Testing D: play it with something like Lifegift already under your control, and the only thing that should trigger is the Lifegift. More irritatingly, have the AI play it; you'll get a "processing" dialog when it enters the bf.

Re: [confirmed all]Rainbow Vale

PostPosted: 11 Oct 2015, 16:28
by BAgate
Korath is correct. The rules changed when they created the current implementation of triggers and the stack.

I remember the good old days of duels between Prodigal Sorcerer and Royal Assassin and never being able to use them because whoever tapped theirs first would get killed by the other. God I feel old...

Re: [confirmed all]Rainbow Vale

PostPosted: 11 Apr 2016, 17:12
by Gargaroz
All fixed.