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HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

https://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12336

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Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 03:16
by charlequin
Huggybaby wrote:I'm confused...Each zip should contain a folder. So, 3ED Fulls.zip should contain a 3ED folder, which in turn contains the pics. 3ED Crops.zip also conatins a 3ED folder, etc. If all zips are extracted at once, you will still end up with only one 3ED folder which contains all the different resolutions, but there will be no overwriting, only peaceful coexistence, due to the naming convention.
This could just be status quo bias due to the way we're doing it now, but the structure I prefer is top-level folders for categories, with folders underneath for sets, each with separate zips for 200 DPI, 300 DPI, crops, and extras, and the zips having all the files in their root. That way if you want them all together in one folder it's easy (unzip all the zips directly to their parent folder), but if you want them all in their own folders it's also easy (unzip them all to directories with the same name as the zip files.) If you store them with an internal "3ED" folder, getting separate folders for 200/300/etc. is much harder.

There are problems I found trying to classify sets; one is finding a balance between complexity and simplicity. Another is that everybody has their own idea of how to group things. No approach satisfies everyone, proven by all the different schemes which have been proposed over the years.
It's difficult to categorize for sure since WotC keeps introducing more and more categories of cards as time goes on. What I settled into for myself was:

Introductory Sets (e.g. Portal, Starter)
Core Sets
Expansion Sets
Fixed Supplemental Sets (e.g. box sets, precons, FTV)
Randomized Supplemental Sets (e.g. Modern Masters, Conspiracy, Unglued)
Promos (any alternate-appearance cards distributed individually)

Those categories are pretty broad but it should be pretty easy to slot even new types of sets into them.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 05:11
by kudit
charlequin wrote:Introductory Sets (e.g. Portal, Starter)
Core Sets
Expansion Sets
Fixed Supplemental Sets (e.g. box sets, precons, FTV)
Randomized Supplemental Sets (e.g. Modern Masters, Conspiracy, Unglued)
Promos (any alternate-appearance cards distributed individually)
Why not just:
Normal Sets (core and expansion since there will not be any more core sets)
Supplemental Sets
Promos

?

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 06:42
by Wurm
kudit wrote:Why not just:
Normal Sets (core and expansion since there will not be any more core sets)
Supplemental Sets
Promos

?
I just did that. Normal sets has ~80 files, supplemental ~60 files. Nice and balanced without everything dumped together.

It's kinda late now, had the urge to make a torrent so here's this :mrgreen:

Take it as a beta if you like. If there's something that needs fixing I'll do it. I went with Huggybaby's way. I'm not sure what would be the most efficient method. Now it's a "3ED XLHQs.zip" with a "3ED" folder inside and all "[...].xlhq.jpg" files inside. Note that this torrent is only for XLHQs.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2015, 18:51
by Huggybaby
Wurm wrote:I went with Huggybaby's way.
You are wise.

25 downloads already. In the past I've had a similar response, but nobody ever helped find errors. They just want the torrent. Lets hope this time is different.

Are the 4KHQs and crops available for later?

PS If you had torrentzipped your sets I could try to join at a much higher percentage, it would be interesting to see.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2015, 04:48
by Nyth
I'll pick this up and peruse through it to see if I can spot any errors. So far, it looks sound, although (and this goes back to the whole opinion thing) I would have been happier with the previous minimal breakups with a small alteration.

  • Introductory Sets & Core Sets - Since we are done with the these sets (for now) it means that the contents of this folder will not change in the foreseeable future
  • Expansion Sets - Includes all old sets and new expansions
  • Preconstructed/Reprint Sets - Same as previously mentioned, includes everything from Duel Decks to FTVs, PDS to Coldsnap Theme Decks to older sets such as Battle Royale
  • Randomized Supplemental/Booster Sets - Apart from the Un series, MM, and Conspiracy; this would also include Chronicles, Zendikar Expeditions and similarly distributed sets
  • Promos - As the local guru when it comes to promo organisation and collection, I would beg that we had more than one category of Promos but it will do for now. In my mind, I'm thinking of the first category mentioned and would be interested in seeing a breakdown into "Old Promo Series" i.e. series that are no longer continued by Wizards (such as Arena, WPN, JSS, etc.) and then "Ongoing Promo Series" which will include Prerelease, Release, Game Day, FNM, Buy A Box, Intro Pack, Clash Pack, etc.

Any how. I'll just have a look at what we have and come back with any actual comments.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2015, 05:55
by charlequin
I'm generally in agreement with Nyth on promo organization. And to get more specific on one point:

Nyth wrote:Promos - As the local guru when it comes to promo organisation and collection, I would beg that we had more than one category of Promos but it will do for now. In my mind, I'm thinking of the first category mentioned and would be interested in seeing a breakdown into "Old Promo Series" i.e. series that are no longer continued by Wizards (such as Arena, WPN, JSS, etc.) and then "Ongoing Promo Series" which will include Prerelease, Release, Game Day, FNM, Buy A Box, Intro Pack, Clash Pack, etc.[/list]
On top of this, I've found that, just to make some of these series actually manageable and trackable in file form, it's beneficial for any promo series that's regularly 3+ cards per year (e.g. FNM, Judge, Intro Pack, etc.) to sort underneath into annual folders. If you just have a giant folder called "Judge Promos" it's difficult to keep anything usefully separated. Breaking it down to 2001, 2002, etc. fits with WotC's numbering (which is per-year) and makes it much easier to verify the set.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 03:03
by MTGCardslist
Hi

Seen that you're all working into a better system across platform to file all those pics.

Is there any reason why you have to stick to 3 digit folder name?

Ok, some of you seen how i was managing my folders. I'm not saying mine is the best, i think depending on what you want to do with them will definitively change how you are looking at your perfect structure.

But what i want to say is, for those having the purpose of browsing those pics to see what's available out there, purchase, build and manage their piles of owning, that structure isn't the best. It's not like everybody know's what FNM means...

After all, to a programmer standpoint, the folder could be named A, B, C ... it really doesn't matter as long as the name isn't too long or contains any special characters that are making it more difficult to manage...

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 05:44
by charlequin
Yeah, I would like to see descriptive folder names, along the lines of what we use in our folder structure for the current releases -- e.g. "KTK - Khans of Tarkir" and so on. The goal of this project is not to support any specific application that might need a predictable naming structure, so I would lean towards ease of human use.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 10:01
by Huggybaby
Sorry folks, we use three letter codes because that's what WOTC uses and that's what most of the games that use these pics uses.

Generally I include a text file that lists all the sets and codes, that should be sufficient.

Longer names would be nice but it's a tradeoff for sure. The solution is a script to rename them however you like. I've asked for it for years and maybe someone will write it one day. That someone might even be you.

I'm sorry, but what would help complete this torrent is people helping complete it, not suggesting an infinite number of naming and categorizing schemes. That ship has sailed years ago.

It might change in the future but now is not the time.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 11:58
by skibulk
skibulk wrote:I know we're pretty traditional around here, but I want to make a suggestion.

For the torrent, I find the whole "tiny" / "full" / "crop" / "xlhq" / "xrop" / "4khq" naming scheme to be a little clunky. I realize that fulls and crops were born out of tradition, and that there's value in using different file extensions so that the images can co-exist in the same folder. But from a new user standpoint, these labels aren't intuitive. They don't explicitly convey the two variables they are intended to communicate: 1) resolution and 2) is the image a card or just artwork. I think as a file extension they're fine. But for folder organization, I'd like to see something more straight forward. Here's a potential folder and name structure:

/Expansion Sets/Theros/THS-EN Crops 100DPI.zip

I think that spelling out the set name is useful for the same reason: it's more intuitive to people who don't know the set code. Then by using the Set Code and Language code from M15 cards, multi-lingual support is possible. The number in the file name is the resolution of the images. The zip file name formula would be:

SetCode-LangCode + (Cards, Extras, Crops) + (100, 200, 300, 600)DPI
This is just an explanation of past events, I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be used in the torrent.

I suggested our current release structure a couple years back. It uses Huggybaby's image naming scheme, but different folder and zip names. Nobody responded. I used it anyway because it made my job easier.

For set names, I use the official Gatherer names. For set codes, I use the official Gatherer codes with the official M15 language codes.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 18:31
by Huggybaby
Ha, few respond to me either. :)

FWIW, using DPI as a descriptor only seems to help those who use photoshop. As we know a cell phone can have the same DPI as a large screen. OTOH, 4KHQ will fill the screen on any 4K monitor, which to me is a very practical descriptor.

It's probably moot anyway. You might have noticed Wurm's lack of recent posts, and the fact he has only 10 total. So we'll wait and see what happens. I would not ask him to go and rename everything again, it's a huge undertaking, and that nobody has attempted a collection in years speaks volumes.

I will consider changes if the torrent is ever complete but not until then. I suggest discussions toward a new naming convention take place in another topic.

One change to which I AM currently amenable is splitting out the Promos. They are kind of a different and complicated animal.

I don't mean to sound short or unreasonable, hopefully I"m not coming across that way. It's just that my time is very limited and this has already been extremely well considered.

Thanks,

HB

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 19:17
by skibulk
4KHQ is a useful term. Full and XLHQ are less practical, in my opinion. I'm biased toward DPI because it conveys a complex relationship between the images in a simple way. 200DPI has 66% the pixel width of 300DPI. And 600DPI is twice as wide as 300DPI.

For those who are curious:

DPI is a decades old term which originates from printers. If you scan a card at 600DPI, you get an image with 600 dots (pixels) for every 1" across the card. Of course the cards are larger than 1" x 1", so if you multiply DPI by the actual dimension of the cards, apoproximately 2.48" by 3.47", you get the corresponding pixel width and pixel height of the image. (Within a few pixels. Don't forget that our 200DIP images have the corners cropped off.)

Sometimes people report a "72 DPI error" with our images. This is a per-application phenomenon. We don't actually specify DPI in the file metadata, but most programs display a default of 72 DPI anyways. 72 DPI was the standard screen resolution before Retina and HIDPI displays were produced.

Edit: Just noticed you edited your post HB, sorry this is not in a new thread. Move it if you would like to.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 13:17
by kudit
Huggybaby wrote:Longer names would be nice but it's a tradeoff for sure. The solution is a script to rename them however you like. I've asked for it for years and maybe someone will write it one day. That someone might even be you.
I can write scripts. Just let me know what you want it to do.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 18:45
by skibulk
The script would need to rename folders and image files for use with various MTG apps. For renaming folders, I think a user-editable spreadsheet would be appropriate. The columns would be, for example, CCGHQ, Magic Workstation, etc. The rows would be target folder names. The script should prompt the user to select one of the spreadsheet columns as the source (search) and another as the destination (replacement) column.

File names are more complicated. Apps use different dividers for split_-frame cards, or land1 numbering[2], etc.

Maybe start a new thread asking for users to post the requirements for their favorite app.

Re: HQ PICS DOWNLOADS and Status List (MTG) 2013

PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 19:14
by Huggybaby
skibulk has it right. The spreadsheet should be something like a tab delimited text file so that users can easily edit and contribute to it. A google spreadsheet could work as the community source file.

Complexity comes when choosing whether to move, copy, overwrite etc, but that's a pain programmers have long had to deal with. You also have to consider whether to move zips around, or to move and unzip them, blah blah.

I had it all figured out at one time but I'm rusty right now and too busy to think about it much dangit. I outlined my vision to Nyth a long time ago, I forget if that was public or private.

For starters the first column would contain all the three letter set codes we're using. The second would contain the old versions, so for Alpha LEA could be renamed to A.

Renaming the actual cards isn't necessary right now, first things first.

PS It looks like the torrent has fizzled unless someone steps forward with the rest of the sets. I simply can't do it or I would have, believe me.
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