Collectible Card Game Headquarters

The main forum is becoming somewhat of a mess, so I'm in the process of reorganizing in an attempt to enhance usability. There are so many stickies that they begin to lose their value, and new user help is jumbled in with topics for new development.

The idea is to add as few new forums as possible, and you can see a couple of new ones already. It will take a few days to get everything optimized.

Let me know if you have any ideas.

I use these forums as an experienced user (perhaps I visit the manalink forum more than anyone else), so here are my comments from that perspective.

1) Previously, I was able to see what's new just by hitting refresh and looking for the 'new post' icon. Now I have to check 3 separate pages. Huge usability drop, since I read every single post on this forum.

2) The main installation guide used to be the very top link (it was an announcement, I believe), or close to it. Now it's buried 2 layers deep, and mixed in with 4 other guides. I think this is going to be much harder for a new user to find now.

3) I think anything buried under separate forums will not be used much. For example, I think people will not report many bugs with the bug list hiding out under 'Under Development'.

That said, here are my suggestions:
1) Go ahead and group all those guides together, but somehow make the main guide that points to the wiki always the first link. Go ahead and lock that thread, too.

2) I totally agree that there are too many stickies. These can go in your 'guides / downloads' section:

Current manalink and Graphic packs
SkyMagic Editor 0903.01
ManaLink Graphic Updates & Info

This can be unstickied:
Magic Utilities
Shandalar
Project Zendikar

And then 'Compiled Bugs' could be brought back, and Zendikar bugs could be unsticky. That would leave only 3 total sticky threads:
a) Downloads and Installation Guides
b) Manalink Update XXXX (the most recent version)
c) Compiled Bugs

Thanks for the input. I'll implement as many of those suggestions as possible, just bear with me. I have to shuffle some things to see how they look, and some of them are just as likely to be shuffled back.

1) Previously, I was able to see what's new just by hitting refresh and looking for the 'new post' icon. Now I have to check 3 separate pages. Huge usability drop, since I read every single post on this forum.

I know how you feel, but the usability drop isn't as huge as it seems right now. Forums with new posts turn red, so that helps. You'll have at most a couple of extra clicks, but that's made up for by less scrolling. I'm sure you'll get used to it.

3) I think anything buried under separate forums will not be used much. For example, I think people will not report many bugs with the bug list hiding out under 'Under Development'.

I disagree. The Developer's Corner section in the MTG Forge forum works VERY well. It's accessible from the top forum and I always go there first, whenever it's red indicating a new post. Please check out their forum if you haven't. I think once you coders get used to it you'll be glad to have your own place away from all the "help me" questions.

Huggybaby wrote:Thanks for the input. I'll implement as many of those suggestions as possible, just bear with me. I have to shuffle some things to see how they look, and some of them are just as likely to be shuffled back.

1) Previously, I was able to see what's new just by hitting refresh and looking for the 'new post' icon. Now I have to check 3 separate pages. Huge usability drop, since I read every single post on this forum.

I know how you feel, but the usability drop isn't as huge as it seems right now. Forums with new posts turn red, so that helps. You'll have at most a couple of extra clicks, but that's made up for by less scrolling. I'm sure you'll get used to it.

3) I think anything buried under separate forums will not be used much. For example, I think people will not report many bugs with the bug list hiding out under 'Under Development'.

I disagree. The Developer's Corner section in the MTG Forge forum works VERY well. It's accessible from the top forum and I always go there first, whenever it's red indicating a new post. Please check out their forum if you haven't. I think once you coders get used to it you'll be glad to have your own place away from all the "help me" questions.

Ok, I'm happy to hear about the 'Turn red = new post' thing. Is there a list somewhere of what all these visual cues are?

No, but that's really all there is. If you go to the main page, you will see

Manalink 2.0
-----Installing, Guides, FAQ
-----In Development

If anything is new in any of the forums, Manalink 2.0 will turn red, and if anything is new in either of the subforums, they will turn red too. Then you click on the red forum and look for the red topic icon as usual.

So when I read the MTG Forge forum, I always click on the red developer's corner to go there first, then I go up one level to see what's new in the main forum. I never read the decks forum, and I don't have to skip over new deck posts.

2) I totally agree that there are too many stickies. These can go in your 'guides / downloads' section:

Current manalink and Graphic packs
SkyMagic Editor 0903.01
ManaLink Graphic Updates & Info

This can be unstickied:
Magic Utilities
Shandalar
Project Zendikar

This much is done.

It's possible to make more forums as warranted. I'm not a fan of having LOTS of forums, and I really don't like sub-sub forums, so don't expect to see any of those.

A forum is organic and should reflect the way it's used. In other words, you build a road on top of where people are already walking.

hmm this wasn´t quite what i meant in the pm.
No subforums please - just make a headliner and then the topics below.

like this:

Manalink

Global Announcements:
Topics:
-How to make a donation

Installing,Guides,FAQ
Topics:
-Installation Guide* (read only)
-FAQ*** (read only) <--- new
-Latest Stable Patch (jatill should create this) (read only) <--- new
-Graphics** (read only)
-Challenge 1 (lots of threads all around , have to be merged) (read/write)
-Challenge 2 (read/write)
-Challenge 3 (coming soon) (read/write)
-Guide : How to create new Handskin /\ set of New Handskins (read only)
-Add New Cards: Comprehensive Tutorial (read only)

In Development (for beta-releases to hunt down bugs)
Topics:
-SkyMagic Editor 0903.01 (read only)
-Beta Release (read only - jatill should create this one, so you only have to update one link) <--- new
-Project Zendikar (read/write) (until its finished)
-Zendikar Bugs (read/write) (till its finished)

General
Topics:
-Compiled Bug List (sticky, read/write // for general bugs)
-Decklists (sticky, read/write) <--- new
-the other Threads (read/write)

------------

*merge this to one Thread "Installation Guide"
{
-Download Original MicroProse & ManaLink Game Files!
-Download + Installation Guide, plus User Manual
-The ManaLink WIKI Is Here
}

**merge this to one Thread "Graphics"
{
-ManaLink Graphic Updates & Info
-Current manalink and Graphic packs
}


***merge this to one Thread "FAQ"
{
pretty much all "help" threads
}

Sorry, but if we don't have subforums, we'll have the same problem as before, which is scrolling and scrolling and scrolling.

i prefer scrolling twice over clicking 8 times to see 4 subforums to be honest ... and i haven´t even read a single post by then

the important topics will stay ontop as usual - so there should be no need to scroll unless you want to dig out old posts.

I better wait till you´ve finished. maybe it will turn out to be a good change. who knows. it just seems so unfamiliar

I´ve written a FAQ that should make 90% of the threads in "Installing, Guides, FAQ" obsolete.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1697

Salbei wrote:I´ve written a FAQ that should make 90% of the threads in "Installing, Guides, FAQ" obsolete.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1697

Could you add this to the FAQ section on the wiki? I'd like to keep the wiki as the official source of such information, since anyone can update it, and it's not directly tied to the forums. Thanks.

got no clue how to do this. this thing is everything but userfriendly.


-> http://salbei.spacequadrat.de/pics/wiki.png

like 90% in this thing is outdated - i don´t use this thing so i suppose nobody else does aswell.

Salbei wrote:got no clue how to do this. this thing is everything but userfriendly.


-> http://salbei.spacequadrat.de/pics/wiki.png

like 90% in this thing is outdated - i don´t use this thing so i suppose nobody else does aswell.

Ok Mr exagerato. Like 10% is outdated, and only the download links. Those can probably be removed. The install guide (which is the main link in the install thread) is completely up-to-date. If you log on to the wiki, you get nice 'edit' button to start changing things.

Salbei, that FAQ looks fantastic.
Like jatill said, login to edit the wiki. Use the same username and pass as for this forum.
I don't know much about wiki formatting either, but until someone figures out how to make the wiki look as good as a regular forum post, post whatever guides you want.

On another note: looking at it, I don't know about the Development forum, it may not be necessary since that's what the main forum is being used for.

updated that thing a bit to make it clearly arranged.
I´m still working on it and it is not 100% finished yet so a link to it is currently the better choice
(i just have to update that post when i add something instead of having to edit the wiki aswell).

you could start to lock/delete threads that are solved with this FAQ (a lot of the threads are about the same issues and most of them can be deleted now).gonna create a list of obsolete threads later - have to make sure the FAQ will solve the issues in there.
make the FAQ sticky please.

let me know when there is something to add.

Suggestions:

"New Users Start Here"
don´t like the name to be honest.i would suggest "Latest Release and Tutorials" .
this sub-forum is way too crowded with oboslete threads (61 , you will want a maximum of 10 here) - it is supposed to be clearly representing just very few things:

Installation guide (sticky)
Latest Stable Release (sticky)
Graphics (Card Artwork+UI mods) (sticky)
FAQ (sticky)
Wiki (sticky)
tutorials // guides

move this thread to "New Users Start Here" please:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1329 (Multiplayer)


"In Development"
the in development forum is for beta releases that will most likly contain tons of bugs that need to be fixed before jatill can release the patch as a "stable release".
it is a good thing that it is seperated from the normal release/bugreports . please keep it that way.
Autotargeting lists are under constant development and the thread should stay in there in my oppinion.

move these threads to "In Development" please.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1591 (Autotargeting - updated lists)
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1609 (Project Zendikar)
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=895 (Top Ten Wishlist)
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=914 (SkyMagic Editor 0903.01)

"Decks and Strategy"
this should contain everything that has to do with the challenges ,decklist,deck strategy ,shandalaar etc.

move these thread to "Decks and Strategy"
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1504 (Challenge Mode Rewards) + sticky
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1577 (Challenge Set #2 (spoilers))
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1532 (Challenge #7 discussion (with SPOILERS))
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1521 (Challenge #5 discussion (with spoilers))
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1503 (Challenge #4 (contains lots of spoilers))
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1495 (Challenge #3 (contains spoilers))
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1530 (Challenge #6 discussion (with spoilers))
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1702 (challenge set #3)


the threads where somebody asks for a volunteer could be locked/put into the ARCHIVE by now aswell.

you also might want to add a new subforum

"Archive"
old release threads and pretty much every thread from the forum/subforum pages 2+ should go in there.
especially the outdated release threads should be moved there to prevent users from using outdated patches (and report bugs that are already fixed).

Or you could, you know, just put everything back the way it was Were people complaining to you about the organized clutter we had before? I figured the new users were finding things alright, since I'm getting tons of downloads.