It is currently 23 Oct 2017, 13:09
   
Text Size

Adding cards to manalink, please help

Continuing Development of MicroProse's Magic: The Gathering!

Moderators: stassy, BAgate, gmzombie, Aswan jaguar, drool66, CCGHQ Admins

Re: Adding cards to manalink, please help

Postby lujo » 22 Nov 2015, 00:48

@Dingbat: I know this. But it's actually in Korath's best interest that I become able to do this, he just may not be fully aware of why. It would solve him a lot of grief I'm causing him and improve my attitude considerably. I don't want to cause him any grief and despite what it looks like I'm very grateful to him and this is a good way to get myself out of the way.

A long way of saying that getting me able to do this doesn't mean I'm going to push any cards I add on anyone else, and would actually make developer lives easier even if they never ever accept any card I implement, and that I'd likely never even ask them to myself | Open
I can't help folks with what they want help with, because how well they can follow what I'm saying when it comes to the things they want help with is similar to how well I can follow Korath when he goes full-programmer on me. Except the difference is that when it's me asking Korath for help/advice both parties are quite aware of who knows their s**t and who's the noob, while in the other situation it's quite hard for the inexperienced party to have a firm grasp of just how large the qualification gap is and what that means. I know why I'd never go "That's just your opinion" at Korath about something to do with programming, but I also know how hugely difficult it is to really know why going "That's just your opinion" at me when it comes to MtG (and occasionally just game design) is not wise. (And that, because of that, this just comes across as ego on my part, and is absolutely unhelpful in an environment where people are doing things for their own sake, reasons and for free :( )

What's extra unfortunate is that I could, for example, probably help quite a bit with manalink draft development. Simply because I know how drafts work under the hood IRL. Except what I have to say on that would get interpreted as oddly too-certain opinion rather than basic set development 101. It's simple, I say something that wouldn't raise an eyebrow among experts, folks who aren't go do math to see if it actually makes sense. I say that - folks think I expect blind obedience on nebulous ground, I look like a colossal jerk. Korath rolling his eyes at me for "expecting someone to teach me C in a few posts" (which isn't what I was looking for, but wth) is easy to understand, situations where I'm in his position aren't.

But I want to be able to add cards to manalink (and eventually shandalar) whether they get included in an official release or not. I've got about 20 or so people offline who would appreciate it and who are all around my skill/experience level at magic, some of whom would, if they were involved here, spam the reports even harder than I do. These people would eat me alive if whatever I added was not at the very least at the same level of functionality as anything similar already in. What I have coming to me isn't answering to Korath if something is substandardly ported by the highest Manalink community standards, but having to answer to people who have even higher standards for both my ports and all Manalink limitations and blunders that have nothing to do with me. And I know these people personally and owe them more quality than anyone owes to any other random dude on the internet.

Since folks around here set their own pace and goals, and this often involves leaving out cards they don't feel like bothering with but are otherwise banal, waiting on him to get around to port them is unnecessary for me and my acquaintances privately. There's a ton of non-enabled cards in manalink which noone in this community found a reason to add in all these years, no reason for me to believe people ever will. Someone who knows what they are for, like me, wouldn't mind spending an hour on each of them, someone who would leave them there even though the time investment per-card is a lot lower is not likely to ever find motivation to enable them. My guys see they're not in they go bewildered on me. If I say "these guys didn't port them" this just gets a logical "ask them how to port them yourself, then."

And if my firends and I would like to enjoy drafting in manalink, we would need a ton of cards which aren't there but are likely banal to get in. Except then I would have to either wait for that to happen, which might really be never, or bother someone who's actually doing a lot of highly qualified work for free to do something they can't see the point of (or adjust their schedule for it or what have you). If I can do it, and it looks to me like I can do it as soon as I get the source to compile, me and my folks (and family) gets to have what we want, and if the slightly magic manalink / shandalar community ever wants those cards in noone has to do any actual work, just ask. It's likely that the cards will be rather well tested by that point.

Shandalar means a lot to me and my folks. If anything ever was worth revisiting programming for me it's that. I made a robot go in junior high, and I was the only guy in my high-school class who could always write bug-free code on a piece of paper (idk how it works around the world, we had informatics tests in classrooms without computers, so that folks wouldn't check for bugs on the fly). I'm pretty confident I can get uncomplicated cards into both manalink and shandalar well enough on my end.

Somebody doesn't want any of those cards, wants full creative control, accolades, job at wizards or just doesn't want a sliver of chance of having to account in any way for a screwup someone else made, or just plain doesn't like me, _______________ - that's fine with me, but helping me get on with it is the best possible way to actually get me off their back for good.

This is without even going into the fact that I don't see adding cards as gratifying, but rather necessary. For one thing I expect to be yelled at if they're not there (by people I consider authorities on the subject), and for another because it cuts down deckbuilding time and getting the AI to use decks as it allows me to run more things by it until it plays them right, etc etc.* Whether these decks are used by me and mine or by folks around here - that's not up to me.


So in short, me being able to add cards is a very good thing for everybody whichever way you look at it.

And I can apparently do it, just have to figure out this whole compiler business, which may as well happen tomorrow. If I happen to end up needing access to the repository for a functional, compiling source code for that (other people did before), I'd be quite sad.
---

My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
User avatar
lujo
 
Posts: 557
Joined: 20 Nov 2013, 13:17
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: Adding cards to manalink, please help

Postby lujo » 23 Nov 2015, 01:28

Well, now I know what the trouble was - I got the missing stuff and got the compiler to work, but I seem to have a src with a bunch of strangely coded things in it. I managed to get through a bunch of them (for science, haven't completely lost my touch it seems), but what would help is an up-to date src. I mean, if anyone tried to compile anything with this one they would've run into the same errors as I did (and apparently some folks did). How they solved them they didn't share, and if they got any instructions it was via PM's.

Mine had issues with Cromat, Hired Torturer and Skulkins, Mimics and Desecrator Hag from Eventide (probably other things but I cut the Lujo vs. code session there for today). "Shadowing global definitions" and other stuff. Anybody remember handling those cards at some point? Or willing to hand me a src which compiles (or some instructions)?

Setting the compiler to ignore warnings seemed like a stupid idea so i didn't try that even to see what happens. I could probably brute force my way through these or even just disable them to see what's the end of the rainbow like, but I'd rather do things properly.

(In case it's relevant info I'm attempting to compile it with mingw and i have the fate reforged src and the one gargaroz put up at some point. And I suppose i'll eventually need to edit some paths in "deploy", too.)
---

My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
User avatar
lujo
 
Posts: 557
Joined: 20 Nov 2013, 13:17
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: Adding cards to manalink, please help

Postby Korath » 23 Nov 2015, 06:40

The version in the repo is worse off.
Mongo's fleas no longer bothered him. But the family of goblins that had moved in behind his left ear was starting to get really irritating.
User avatar
Korath
DEVELOPER
 
Posts: 3263
Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
Location: The Land of Torrential Rain
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 895 times

Re: Adding cards to manalink, please help

Postby lujo » 23 Nov 2015, 15:39

There's several ways for that to make sense, I suppose. Some of them explain why you're both terrified of someone fumbling around while you work and also why you're reluctant to bother with tackling manalink as opposed to shandalar at all. But...

That begs the question - how did what I'm able to run as manalnik right now even come to be? It doesn't compile from it's own source code :lol:

Individual cards don't seem to be a problem one way or another (they can, after all, just be disabled if nothing else works)*, but something like:

functions.c.1239: error: declaration of 'sacrifice' shadows a global declaration in manalink.h: 3233

The manalink.h entry is commented as "old interface, deprecated".

How did whoever compiled manalink get around that sort of thing?

*cards i ran into that wouldn't compile | Open
Cromat was shadowing a global definition
Hired Torturer also
eventide.c had "math.h" included and compiled fine without it (it was causing problems with mimics, skulkins and some other stuff, at this point I was just interested in seeing if I could get the whole thing to compile regardless of messing up individual stuff then work my way back - nothing else seemed to have math.h included, too, at least not in a way that would cause problems)
This left Figure of Destiny as the only problem in eventide
everything else didn't stop the process unill it got to functions.c
---

My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
User avatar
lujo
 
Posts: 557
Joined: 20 Nov 2013, 13:17
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Previous

Return to ManaLink 3.0

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 3 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
Most users ever online was 279 on 11 Jul 2013, 22:03

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Login Form