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Rules Question:

I've been thinking about this situation that just happened to me in Duel, and I'm not sure at all whether the engine handled it correctly or not. It's quite bizarre, so anyway, here goes:

I attacked with Maelstrom Archangel and a 4/4 Lord of Extinction, and AI had a Shivan Dragon in play. I had Bituminous Blast in hand. The AI declared the dragon as a blocker against my LoE.

During the damage dealing phase, my Maelstrom Angel triggers, asking me to play a free card. So I select the Bituminous Blast I was saving, and target the Shivan Dragon. Bituminous Blast cascades Man-o'-War.

Being somewhat surprised at that turn of events, I look and see that 1) my angel is in no danger, 2) his dragon has taken 8 damage (4 from LoE, 4 from BB) and is about to die, so I target 3) My dying Lord of Extinction. The Lord of Extinction then returns to my hand via Man-o'-War's unsummon effect, and I recast LoE during my postcombat main phase.

So the question is, under current rules, would all that stuff really actually be able to happen the way it did, all during the damage-dealing phase of combat?

Of course I could be wrong, but it seems to me that since all of this is occurring during the damage dealing phase and the Man-o'-War is cast during this phase due to the Cascade effect thus triggering the Man-o'-War effect, it would work out as it did for you. The only thing that might be in question is can the Lord of Extinction be unsummoned as it is going to the graveyard after receiving lethal damage. I think the answer is yes, so IMO, the scenario that played out would be legal.

However with the new rules that have come into effect, well it comes down to what it always does, a question of timing. I think since all of this occurs during the damage dealing phase, all of these events are "on the stack" so I think that they indeed play out as it did for you.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure some of the other guys here that know their rules interpretations will correct me.

aww1979 wrote:During the damage dealing phase, my Maelstrom Angel triggers, asking me to play a free card. So I select the Bituminous Blast I was saving, and target the Shivan Dragon. Bituminous Blast cascades Man-o'-War.

Actually, at the point Maelstrom Angel triggers, combat damage has been dealt to defending player and all creatures. So before the trigger goes on the stack, SBE's are checked and the Lord of Extinction will go to the graveyard because of lethal damage.

aww1979 wrote:Being somewhat surprised at that turn of events, I look and see that 1) my angel is in no danger, 2) his dragon has taken 8 damage (4 from LoE, 4 from BB) and is about to die, so I target 3) My dying Lord of Extinction. The Lord of Extinction then returns to my hand via Man-o'-War's unsummon effect, and I recast LoE during my postcombat main phase.

Since the Lord of Extinction is already in the graveyard, you'll have to pick another creature for the Man-o'-War's triggered ability (either the Maelstrom Angel or the Shivan Dragon - which is still 5/5 with 4 damage since the Bituminous Blast hasn't resolved yet).

aww1979 wrote:So the question is, under current rules, would all that stuff really actually be able to happen the way it did, all during the damage-dealing phase of combat?

This wouldn't happen either in the old rules (post 6th edition) or with the latest M10 changes.

The problem in figuring this stuff out is trying to keep up with the rule changes while having ManaLink dealing with 4th edition rules. Now some of the newer rules, like the removal of mana burn have been implemented, others have not, mostly due to the limitations of the game engine itself.

I do spend a good part of my MTG playing time within ManaLink, so I guess I am used to seeing Magic from that rules point of view.

I stand corrected and thank Incantus for getting us informed on the proper rule interpretation!

No problem. I only know this because I had to implement it in my own program. It might work that way for pre-6th edition rules - I'm not sure because they hadn't really formalized the stack.

Ah, okay, so in real life the best (legal) move would generally be for Man-o'-war to bounce himself, since the dragon will die once BB resolves, and bouncing my angel is silly, and no other legal targets were available.

re:incantus

I think at one point, sometime after I quit playing MtG actively (which was around 2000), damage was put onto the stack, which resulted in some really stupid interactions, like pumping Morphling into 5/1, putting 5 damage on the stack, then making him a 0/6 to survive combat with a 5/5, for instance. Under those obsolete rules, I think the scenario that occurred to me in manalink might be the correct way.

Actually, even in the case where damage is put on the stack, the Maelstrom Angel won't trigger until after the combat damage resoves, at which point the Lord of Extinction will go to the graveyard from lethal damage. The main reason this scenario isn't affected by the new combat damage rules is that the Maelstrom Angel doesn't trigger until the damage is done to the defending player. You are confusing dealing the damage with assigning the damage (which is what happened when the damage was put on the stack)

Yeah, I think I get it now after reading that last post by Incantus. I thought that was probably how it was
-supposed- to happen, but I wasn't totally sure, mostly because BB and Man-o-war don't usually take effect during a damage-dealing phase :p

Recently I had a quite similar case happen to me :
AI triggered Arena, choose a big moffo and ask me to choose a creature. I select one but before damage resolve I had the possibility to use Diamond Valley on it, fizzeling the Arena effect (I get the life benefit).

Is it still correct in the new rules?