Top Ten Wishlist

[Tower_Mazer]

1) Ashen Ghoul
2) Squandered Resources
3) Soldevi Digger
4) Jester's Cap
5) Baron Sengir
6) Joven
7) The five dragon legends (Treva, Rith, Darigaaz, Crosis, Dromar)

All in all a bit more than ten, but oh well

No Doomsday for the Digger Doom deck? Good picks I'd like to see em all.

[jatill]

Here's the entire top 10 list to date, with annotations for difficulty and coder's notes.

1 = easy
2 = sounds easy, a bit of code required, though
3 = sounds easy, might not be
4 = sounds challenging, but still doable in C
5 = easy enough, but requires ASM work
7 = requires some new techniques
8 = requires major mods
9 = requires major mods + research
10 = probably impossible

Card Name Difficulty Technique Required
Abeyance 10 No idea how to separate mana from non-mana abilities, or how to turn off abilities
Academy Ruins 6 Mod of Argivian Archaeologist
Acidic Sliver 7 Iff-Biff effect
AEther Vial 7 Counters
Aluren 10 No idea how to give all creatures flash
Arcane Denial 7 Legacy Effects
Ashen Ghoul 9 Mod of Nether Shadow
Baron Sengir 8 Mod of Sengir + ability
Beacon of Creation 5 count_land('FOREST') needed
Chill 1
Chronatog 3
Clot Sliver 7 Iff-Biff effect
Counterbalance 9 Reveal top card, interrupt speed spell-played trigger
Countersquall 3
Courier's Capsule 1
Covetous Dragon 1
Crystal Shard (and other Shards) 4
Cursed Scroll 7 Name a card (see Petra Sphynx)
Darkheart Sliver 7 Iff-Biff effect
Deathgreeter 4 Graveyard triggers
Deflection 9 Mod fork somehow
Disperse 1
Donate 7 Permanent control magic effect
Dredge(The Mechanic) 10 Milled cards have no abilities
Duress 7 Reveal opponent's hand (see Telepathy)
Empyrial Armour 1
Engineered Explosives 4 lots of code probably required
Essence Sliver 7 generic damage triggers
Exploding Borders 5 count_land('FOREST') needed
Fires of Yavimaya 5 pump_creature_eot needed
Firestorm 9
Flash 7 Need a way of looking up creature's mana cost
Forbid 2
Furnace of Rath 9
Gaea's Blessing 10 Milled cards have no abilities
Gemstone Mine 7 Counters
Glimpse of Nature 7 Legacy Effects
Goblin Lackey 7 generic damage triggers
Goblin Piledriver 4 need to research attacking creature code
Goblin Ringleader 8 Revealing cards from top, Putting cards on bottom
Goblin Sharpshooter 4 Graveyard triggers
Goblin welder 4 Multiple Targets
Gorilla shaman 3
Hunted Horror, etc 1
Icatian Javelineer 7 Counters
Illusions of Grandeur 7 Leaves play, cumulative upkeep
Impulse 8 Revealing cards from top, Putting cards on bottom
Isochron Scepter 10 Playing spells for free
Ivory Gargoyle 8 Legacy Effects
Jackal Pup 9 Damage trigger
Jester's Cap 8 Rework of tutor sub
Joven 2
Living Death 4
Mana Drain 7 Legacy Effects
Might of Alara 7 count_land('FOREST'), pump_creature_eot needed
Mind Bend 4
Mind Stone 1
Mirari's Wake 5 Mod of mana drain + anthem
Mulch 4
Natural Order 8 Rework of tutor sub
Negate 4
Nether Void 9 interrupt speed spell-played trigger
Oblivion Stone 7 Counters
Opposition 2
Overrun 5 pump_creature_eot needed
Painlands 8 getting AI to use these would be very difficult
Pernicious Deed 2
Phyrexian Negator 9 Damage trigger
Pillory of Sleepless 2
Powder Keg 7 Counters
Priest of Titania 5 mod of Tolarian Academy
Pyrite Spellbomb, etc 1
Razormane Masticore 3
Recurring Nightmare 3
Recycle 7 hand size modification (cursed rack?)
Reflecting Pool 6 Reverse Fellwar Stone
Reminisce 4 mod Feldon's Cane
Rocky Tar Pit, etc 3 mod Bloodstained Mire, etc
Saproling Burst 9 don't know how to link creatures with the enchantment
Sarcomancy 3
Seal of Fire (and Seal of whatever), 1
Serrated Arrows 7 Counters
Shallow Grave 7 Legacy Effects
Shivan Hellkite 2
Silhana Ledgewalker 9 Self shroud
Skittering Skirge 9 on targetted trigger
Sneak Attack 7 Legacy Effects
Soldevi Digger 9 bottom of library, adding cards to deck
Spectral Bears 7 Legacy Effects
Spike Feeder 7 Counters
Spike Weaver 7 Counters
Spined Sliver 8 becomes blocked trigger
Spiritmonger 8 change colors, dealt damage trigger
Squandered Resources 9 knowing what colors a land could produce
Squee, Goblin Nabob 10 Milled cards have no abilities
Staff of Domination 4
Static Orb 8 mod of smoke
Storm 10 nothing counts spells played, making copies might be impossible
Sword of Fire & Ice 7 generic damage triggers
Tangle Wire 6 stacking fading will be tough
Thornscape battlemage 3
Thoughtseize 7 Reveal opponent's hand (see Telepathy)
Thran Dynamo 5 mod of sol ring
Treetop Village, etc 9 mishra's factory has a LOT of code
Treva, etc 7 generic damage triggers
Trinket Mage 8 Rework of tutor sub
Triskelavus 7 Counters
Troll Ascetic 9 Self shroud
Umezawa's Jitte 7 generic damage triggers
Volrath's Stronghold 6 Mod of Raise Dead
Wildfire Emissary 1
Yawgmoth's Will 8 Target any card in graveyard

[Mr_Grey]

Interesting mana/land related cards
1. Benthic Explorers
2. Elvish Spirit Guide
3. Trade Caravan
4. Mystic Compass
5. Sol Grail
6. Thran Dynamo
7. Rainbow Vale
8. Braid of Fire
9. Dark Depths
10. Tinder Wall

[Wally]

Duress 7 Reveal opponent's hand (see Telepathy)

Hi Jatill, would Coercion be a closer fit then Telepathy?

[Bog Wraith]

Jatill,

Thanks for the in depth breakdown on the scale for creating cards. It does help us understand the complexities of trying to code these different type of cards that are on our wish lists.

Could you do the same for two other lands in particular that were not on your difficulty assessment chart:

Lake of the Dead

Thawing Glaciers

Thanks

[Rockman]

Aluren 10 No idea how to give all creatures flash

It's not the same ability like Dragon Arch or Elvish Piper? Flash just means that the creature is put in play in instant speed.

[jatill]

Aluren 10 No idea how to give all creatures flash

It's not the same ability like Dragon Arch or Elvish Piper? Flash just means that the creature is put in play in instant speed.

The difference is Aluren has a static ability and and Elvish Piper is activated. I could make Aluren activated, but it would need an Iff-Biff effect to let the opponent use it too. I can downgrade that to a 7 because of that.

[jatill]

Duress 7 Reveal opponent's hand (see Telepathy)

Hi Jatill, would Coercion be a closer fit then Telepathy?

When I tried doing this a couple months ago, I tried Coercion, but adding targetting restrictions proved too difficult. The new targetting system alows us to target cards in hand, but only if the hand is already revealed.

[Tower_Mazer]

Dredge(The Mechanic) 10 Milled cards have no abilities
Reflecting Pool 6 Reverse Fellwar Stone

Can someone explain why Dredge would be a 10. To me it seems like it would be able to trigger drawing a card and then put itself on the stack as sacrificed. All 3 mechanics are in the game. Sacrifice a creature: on several card like Fallen Angel, Sac land like on Zuran Orb, and Draw a card on tons of cards. I'm just not understanding this as a 10 is all. I want to know so I can understand some of the obstacles I may face when I teach myself how to work on this project after I'm out of school.

I seen Exotic Orchard and thought well heck why isn't there a reflecting pool? Hopefully you just didn't think about that card and it's lowers the difficulty for you or whoever works on it. {edit: I see this is based off of Fellwar Stone exactly so yeah reverse it duh lol. Somethings aren't as easy as they seem.}

[jatill]

Dredge(The Mechanic) 10 Milled cards have no abilities

Can someone explain why Dredge would be a 10.

It's a 10 for the reason listed. Cards that are milled from your deck have no abilities in the graveyard. So if you dredge Stinkweed Imp, for example, and Grave Troll ends up in your graveyard, the game has no idea that Grave Troll has the dredge ability also. For the same reason we can't do Flashback or Anger.

There may be a clever solution around this, just none that I can think of. After all, we have coded a couple other cards that at one point would have been considered 10's (Hybrid and Force of Will, for example).

[Tower_Mazer]

Dredge(The Mechanic) 10 Milled cards have no abilities

Can someone explain why Dredge would be a 10.

It's a 10 for the reason listed. Cards that are milled from your deck have no abilities in the graveyard. So if you dredge Stinkweed Imp, for example, and Grave Troll ends up in your graveyard, the game has no idea that Grave Troll has the dredge ability also. For the same reason we can't do Flashback or Anger.

There may be a clever solution around this, just none that I can think of. After all, we have coded a couple other cards that at one point would have been considered 10's (Hybrid and Force of Will, for example).

OK I see now. I wasn't familiar with the ability. I'm way old school, quit buying for the most part after Urza's Destiny. I thought it was the card and that the word mechanic was part of the problem. I understand how that would be a 10.
[EDIT]
I've been thinking about these mill problems. I have a few questions. Can we adapt the ability with a token that will hold the ability and it only work with the specified card. Example: The Stinkweed Imp's token would be put into play when the creature goes to the grave or whenever you think best. It would have to be an existing card like an enchantment? At best I guess maybe give it shroud? It could hold the graveyard ability ex: sacrifice: skip drawing the card put Stinkweed Imp into your hand and the top 5 cards of library into graveyard. Can you target specific cards in your graveyard? Also we'd have to hide a hidden ability to remove all tokens of the type when the card is removed from the graveyard unless it would fizzle on a condition check. Also it would be really cool if we could get something like this working on effect cards like the Nether Shadow effect display when it's in the graveyard (which does it work? I read it didn't and I don't see it on bug list.).

[jatill]

Jatill,

Could you do the same for two other lands in particular that were not on your difficulty assessment chart:

Lake of the Dead

Thawing Glaciers

Both easy, I think. AI would never use Lake's second ability, though.

[jatill]

Re: dredge.

I guess Nether Shadow should be added to the bug list. I'm not sure I understand your idea. Do you mean to say that we debug the token into play? If so, it's an idea I've toyed with. At the beginning of a game that uses graveyard ability cards, put the token in play and the token tells the game to regularly check the graveyard. It might work. Similarly, you could create a token that keeps track of storm count for storm decks.

[xXxBretWeedxXx]

OK I'm up to 10 on my wishlist

Academy Ruins
Mirari's Wake
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Loxodon Warhammer
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Crovax, Ascendant Hero
Squirrel Nest
Earthcraft
Gilded Drake

[Tower_Mazer]

Re: dredge.

I guess Nether Shadow should be added to the bug list. I'm not sure I understand your idea. Do you mean to say that we debug the token into play? If so, it's an idea I've toyed with. At the beginning of a game that uses graveyard ability cards, put the token in play and the token tells the game to regularly check the graveyard. It might work. Similarly, you could create a token that keeps track of storm count for storm decks.

Yes that's what I mean. I figure when I can't add new limbs to a tree I can always pluck the branches and clone new trees(<--- just a psycho metaphor). Cool I was hoping we could use what we already have since there isn't a way to add it. Some cards make tokens though. Couldn't we just add a script with hidden text on card that would make the token automatically without debugging? I wonder if we could make it invisible and only call up selection text for the appropriate condition at the right time. Hmm I hope this maybe gives you a different point of view and sparks another Necropotence level card out of you. I can't wait to learn what we can do with this game. Now I have to study for a test later.

[EDIT]
1 more quick note I was thinking of about the cards with fading or similar to an extent. Couldn't we just add artwork in for the cards with counters drawn on them and have the game update the art based on your counter script. By this I mean the alternative art. Just do the same for these types of cards.