How do I attack Planeswalkers?

[RobertAugust]

A couple of times I've wanted to attack an opposing planeswalker, but cannot find out how to. I then end up attacking my opponent.
I have seen a phase where I am asked to choose creatures I wish to have attack a planeswalker, but nothing seems to happen.

Could somebody tell me what I am doing wrong?

[friarsol]

It's hard to tell exactly what you are doing wrong, but it sounds like you are selecting your creatures too soon.

For each opponent and every planeswalker an opponent controls, you have a different segment for declare attackers. If you want to attack an opponent, when the dialog says to attack an opponent select your creature then (right click if you make mistakes). Once you are done declaring attackers for an opponent move onto the next segment, which should be for the first Planeswalker. Select attackers the same as above. I was just doing this last night, so I know it works just fine if you time it properly.

[RobertAugust]

Thanks! It took awhile before I came across a planeswalker, but it works!

[RevivedPicard]

i think guys you must find a better way to attack or targeting planeswalker because it's very unconfortable now ... maybe a pop-up screen or a diferent sign on creature attacking planes ????

[friarsol]

i think guys you must find a better way to attack or targeting planeswalker because it's very unconfortable now ... maybe a pop-up screen or a diferent sign on creature attacking planes ????

The way you "Target" planeswalkers is exactly right according to the rules.

[Max mtg]

The way you "Target" planeswalkers is exactly right according to the rules.

Sol, why rules, not people?

1. Choose whom to attack could be done in a single step. In the same way as you choose blockers, player should click on an entity (that is player or planewalker) to attack (the first opponent is always pre-selected as default), then choose creatures to attack it, then click on another entity and assign attackers to it.

2. Although rules read that targeted gets a player and damage is assigned to a planeswalker, clicking on a planeswalker to targtet Shock on player and then redirect would be a useful shortcut.

PS: Point 1 implemented, commited as 21127. Find it in today's snapshot (http://cardforge.org/releases/snapshots ... -SNAPSHOT/)

[friarsol]

2. Although rules read that targeted gets a player and damage is assigned to a planeswalker, clicking on a planeswalker to targtet Shock on player and then redirect would be a useful shortcut.

We used to do things like this. It's not correct.

What if the Planeswalker dies in between targeting and resolution? Are you still allowed to redirect to something else? In the rules you can. How is that different than the system we have now? Not all spells that target players can even be redirected to Planeswalkers. And some spells that don't target players can still be redirected to Planeswalkers. What if a spell gets redirected to a different player?

This is a poor strategic play to click directly on your "real" target if you want to target a Planeswalker. It gives extra information to your opponent, and potentially wouldn't interact properly with other replacement effects.

As for #1, I don't have any issues with this changing to your check-in but we better make it damn clear to people that this is changed, because I bet we'll be getting a ton of complaints of people missing attacking what they wanted to attack because they were used to the old system.

[Max mtg]

#2 - Just let them auto-target controller of a planeswalker (they click over) with a spell that targets a player if it could not target that planeswalker normally (eg. Lightning Bolt). That is modify only the Input class in charge of target selection.

To remember somewhere the default choice for damage redirection (and not to confirm that on resolution if default target is still avaliable) would require more code changes, but this might wait for a longer time.

You speak of strategic play as if we had multiplayer servers up and running already.


#1. I hope people will notice a red frame around opponent and take into consideration that something has changed and read the new message. Let's see how many complaints will arrive. I am still sure that a single declare attackers phase is way better, especially for games with mupltiple opponents.

[friarsol]

#2 - Just let them auto-target controller of a planeswalker (they click over) with a spell that targets a player if it could not target that planeswalker normally (eg. Lightning Bolt). That is modify only the Input class in charge of target selection.

To remember somewhere the default choice for damage redirection (and not to confirm that on resolution if default target is still avaliable) would require more code changes, but this might wait for a longer time.

You speak of strategic play as if we had multiplayer servers up and running already.


#1. I hope people will notice a red frame around opponent and take into consideration that something has changed and read the new message. Let's see how many complaints will arrive. I am still sure that a single declare attackers phase is way better, especially for games with mupltiple opponents.

Yea I was never that fond of the earlier attacking scenarios, I just want to make sure it's clearly stated in the release notes.

For targeting, I strongly believe it shouldn't be changed unless we have an overwhelming reason to change it. Adding more code that needs to keep track of things while sometimes convenient, can also lead to confusing and inconvenient scenarios down the road.

I speak of strategic play to help players who use Forge to learn the rules and brush up on their skills do things in a way that is more advantageous to them when they goto FNM. If we tell people "The rules say you target a player and on resolution you can redirect it to a Planeswalker, and we try to follow the rules as closely as possible" they learn more about the game, and play better because of that.

[lazylockie]

1. Choose whom to attack could be done in a single step. In the same way as you choose blockers, player should click on an entity (that is player or planewalker) to attack (the first opponent is always pre-selected as default), then choose creatures to attack it, then click on another entity and assign attackers to it.

PS: Point 1 implemented, commited as 21127. Find it in today's snapshot (http://cardforge.org/releases/snapshots ... -SNAPSHOT/)

Excellent, just like MODO. Now we don't have to worry anymore about the absence of take backs when deciding which creature attacks which player/planeswalker

[Max mtg]

I just want to make sure it's clearly stated in the release notes.

For targeting, I strongly believe it shouldn't be changed unless we have an overwhelming reason to change it. Adding more code that needs to keep track of things while sometimes convenient, can also lead to confusing and inconvenient scenarios down the road.

I speak of strategic play to help players who use Forge to learn the rules and brush up on their skills do things in a way that is more advantageous to them when they goto FNM. If we tell people "The rules say you target a player and on resolution you can redirect it to a Planeswalker, and we try to follow the rules as closely as possible" they learn more about the game, and play better because of that.

That's up to Chris. I have announced the changed feature wherever I could.

The problem is: players get stuck. User experience, as some people call it. .
If we want Forge to help novice players the learn the rules and brush up on their skills for real combats, Forge should give them a hint explaining what to do instead of what they have attempted to do.

[friarsol]

The problem is: players get stuck. User experience, as some people call it. .
If we want Forge to help novice players the learn the rules and brush up on their skills for real combats, Forge should give them a hint explaining what to do instead of what they have attempted to do.

Yes, I'm familiar with User Experience, it's part of my job every day, but not all resolutions to User Experience adds more code. This is easily something that can be resolved by informing the User. A simple stickied FAQ could remedy any new users just as easily as adding more complex code. Another option would be to add a note in the input box like you have in the new InputAttack dialog. (Which is definitely noticeable)

I'm not 100% sure this works, but something like this probably does:

Inside 'InputSelectTargets' when the message is being built, if the API is dealDamage (or better, if the ability can generically redirect from players to planeswalkers) add a line at the end of the message that says "To damage Planeswalkers, you need to choose the Controlling opponent and then choose to redirect the damage during resolution of this spell/ability."

[Max mtg]

I don't believe people read FAQs - see how often topics with 'I have black screen instead of match/deck editor' appear.

Don't show that message unless player has tried to perform something wrong. Will be much better if you even show a messagebox but only if he tried to click on a planewalker while targeting some kind of Firebolt.

[Enchanteur]

Hey,
Actual system for attacking planeswalkers is not intuitive.
But when you know how to do it, it's perfect.
I prefer to press space bar and go to next "segment" and just click on attackers, than click attackers and drag-drop an arrow on a specific target.
And like this, there is no confusion beetween "attack phase" and "spell/ability targeting effects".

Edit : just a problem, when I click space bar too fast, I sometime miss an attack. Real improvment would be to rollback, and resdistribute attackers in case of mistake. (And I use to do a lot of mistakes and miss clicks because I play fast).