Drafting

[friarsol]

but most importantly:
2. The boosters aren't really passed around. Only the human gets to pick from a different booster each time. The AI opponents pick mostly from the same booster again and again (until their booster gets handed to the human and then it shifts one booster).

Oh man. That's hilarious.

[Sloth]

but most importantly:
2. The boosters aren't really passed around. Only the human gets to pick from a different booster each time. The AI opponents pick mostly from the same booster again and again (until their booster gets handed to the human and then it shifts one booster).

Oh man. That's hilarious.

Sometimes i'm really shocked how little most of the other developers care for the AI.

That aside, i fixed the issues (and another one with multicolored cards), did a little test (JuzamjediCube) and voila five of the seven opponents build straight two colored decks, while two build mono green decks.

[Rob Cashwalker]

Good catch Sloth.... I know that when I made the basic changes to draft, each AI was looking at a different pack, because I dumped the pack to the console each time an AI needed to pick from it. I'm guessing that somewhere along the way, likely related to the card object revisions, the booster pack generation got messed up. This would be related to the cube mode not functioning with repeated cards.

[juzamjedi]

That aside, i fixed the issues (and another one with multicolored cards), did a little test (JuzamjediCube) and voila five of the seven opponents build straight two colored decks, while two build mono green decks.

Now THAT is awesome. Mono-colored decks should be possible and I'm very happy this happened in your testing.

Does the AI now include colorless cards in the 2 color decks it is willing to draft? Mox should be first picks. I don't expect Phyrexian mana cards included here since AI usually pays mana instead of life.

Slightly less important but worth asking: does AI draft lands in its colors now too?

Also, I looked at the cube list I posted and oof, you are right. What I usually do is sort the decklist and remove the ones with AI value, and I also play against the juzamjedi "deck" to make sure Forge isn't throwing errors. I cleaned the cube AI issues on my desktop computer but posted the wrong version. Corrected version (no AI errors) now posted below.

[Sloth]

Does the AI now include colorless cards in the 2 color decks it is willing to draft?

Yes. It will tread colorless cards as on color cards.

Slightly less important but worth asking: does AI draft lands in its colors now too?

Unfortunately the AI will not recognize lands in it's colors, which is not unimportand since in my testing the AI did include some drafted (late picked) lands in the decks and most of them were pretty useless (off color duals and manlands). So if you want to make your cube really is AI friendly, color aligned lands would have to go.

Also, I looked at the cube list I posted and oof, you are right. What I usually do is sort the decklist and remove the ones with AI value, and I also play against the juzamjedi "deck" to make sure Forge isn't throwing errors. I cleaned the cube AI issues on my desktop computer but posted the wrong version. Corrected version (no AI errors) now posted below.

Most of the other devs keep forgetting to set the AI flag for cards they add or are too lazy to check them for AI compatibility. Also cards with a "?" in the AI column will not be drafted or included in decks. Later i can post a list of cards in your new cube that are no good in the hands of the AI.

[Sloth]

@juzamjedi: The cube you've posted is the same as the one in the SVN version.

These cards are not AI friendly:

| Open

Ankh of Mishra
Arc Lightning
Armageddon
Brainstorm
Demonic Tutor
Engineered Explosives
Fleshbag Marauder
Glen Elendra Archmage
Ravages of War
Regrowth
Rishadan Port
Serum Visions
Skinshifter
Standstill
Tangle Wire
Upheaval
Vampiric Tutor
Vedalken Shackles
Winter Orb
Zo-Zu the Punisher

[juzamjedi]

? marked cards don't raise errors, are they supposed to? I had been including them because Forge didn't complain about them when I started the match.

That list is interesting. I know I've seen AI play Rishadan Port and it's pretty good at using it. I am also pretty certain the AI has played Ankh of Mishra and Fleshbag Marauder (although the AI usually plays it badly). My list of ? cards is different than yours; I am using the 1.1.8 release. That list includes Urborg, Knight of the Reliquary and Opposition and I am pretty certain I have seen AI play those cards. Maybe I am remembering the AI playing those cards from a previous release.

/rant
It's a good thing Blue has busted cards on the high end, because a lot of bread and butter cards aren't playable.

[Chris H.]

? marked cards don't raise errors, are they supposed to? I had been including them because Forge didn't complain about them when I started the match.

That list is interesting. I know I've seen AI play Rishadan Port and it's pretty good at using it. I am also pretty certain the AI has played Ankh of Mishra and Fleshbag Marauder (although the AI usually plays it badly).

`
The "?" is used to denote cards which typically are part of a combo and need other cards in the deck to realize their full power. Lord type cards are a good example. These cards have the "SVar:RemRandomDeck:True" line included in their card file.

The "AI" is used to denote cards which have abilities that the computer can not use at all or can not use very well. Most of the cards with an ability which requires snow mana to activate are a good example. No one has yet modified the computer's mana paying ability to the point where the AI could activate this ability. These cards have the "SVar:RemAIDeck:True" line included in their card file.

It is possible for a card file to include both of these two SVars.

Sloth has done a wonderful job of applying these SVars to cards when it comes to his attention that they are missing from some of our card files. Unfortunately, there are some cards in forge which need to have these SVars added to them and as such this portion of the project is a work in progress.

[Sloth]

? marked cards don't raise errors, are they supposed to? I had been including them because Forge didn't complain about them when I started the match.

As Chris said, these cards won't cause errors and the AI will play them but they need specialy designed decks to be useful.

That list is interesting. I know I've seen AI play Rishadan Port and it's pretty good at using it. I am also pretty certain the AI has played Ankh of Mishra and Fleshbag Marauder (although the AI usually plays it badly). My list of ? cards is different than yours; I am using the 1.1.8 release. That list includes Urborg, Knight of the Reliquary and Opposition and I am pretty certain I have seen AI play those cards. Maybe I am remembering the AI playing those cards from a previous release.

You are right about Rishadan Port. The AI at least targets non basics before basics. It can stay. Knight of the Reliquary is ok, too (I removed the "?" flag). I did not include Urborg because it's a color aligned land which are not AI friendly anyway. I missed Opposition, the AI can't use it effectively in the slightest way.

It's a good thing Blue has busted cards on the high end, because a lot of bread and butter cards aren't playable.

Yes this is sad. Blue is the most skill intensive color, so our dumb AI has some problems there. Some suggestions to fill the holes: Braingeyser/Stroke of Genius (recently enabled for the AI), Equilibrium, Treasure Hunt, Propaganda.

Other cards that i recently made the AI fit for:
- more cards with X in their cost (Mind Twist, Feral Hydra, Krakilin, Primordial Hydra, ...)
- cards with effects that last for the rest of the turn (Abeyance, Angel's Grace, ...)

[Sloth]

If you don't want to make your cube completely AI friendly juzamjedi, just say so. In that case (or if you don't respond) I will add an AI friendly cube myself.

[delirimouse]

While we're talking about limited formats and collecting data from people, would it be possible for people to upload their sealed deck lists from a given format, so that when you play an opponent in sealed the AI plays a deck made by a human in that format?

I imagine that would lead to a huge spike in the quality of sealed opponents.

[delirimouse]

Another, more draft related, request is that it would be incredibly helpful if while drafting it displayed the pictures of the cards in the pack. Would this be too graphically intensive?

[juzamjedi]

Sloth, sorry I haven't been responding - very busy at my job.

I definitely want the cube to be AI friendly. There are a lot of other cards I would play if there were humans drafting it instead of AI. I'm really sad about some of these - Brainstorm, Armageddon, Ravages of War, Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are all amazing. But I would rather the AI be able to play the cards in my cube so... I guess I will find replacements for the ones you've listed above (except for Port and Knight of the Reliquary, since we discussed it and they are fine).

Take another look at this file and let me know if there are still others I need to replace.

[Sloth]

Sloth, sorry I haven't been responding - very busy at my job.

I definitely want the cube to be AI friendly. There are a lot of other cards I would play if there were humans drafting it instead of AI. I'm really sad about some of these - Brainstorm, Armageddon, Ravages of War, Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are all amazing. But I would rather the AI be able to play the cards in my cube so... I guess I will find replacements for the ones you've listed above (except for Port and Knight of the Reliquary, since we discussed it and they are fine).

Take another look at this file and let me know if there are still others I need to replace.

If you remove all color related lands, the cube should be fine. That means all lands that either produce colored mana (but not any type) or have an activated ability that requires colored mana would need to go. Fetchlands too.

[juzamjedi]

That does not make sense. How are dual lands bad for the AI when they produce extra colors for little or no cost? Most of the lands in here should make the mana better.