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I'm considering doing some more balancing of the Quest Pets, as I find myself not playing a few of them very often. Now this is probably more related to my play style than anything else, so I wanted to take a poll and see if it's more widespread than that. The poll will take just a few seconds, and it'll be some good feedback into the system.

Thanks Sol. Seems like some good info to collect. I've stickied the topic to make it a bit more visible.

are we supposed to select the ones we use more often or the ones we don't use?

lazylockie wrote:are we supposed to select the ones we use more often or the ones we don't use?

Select the ones you do use.

I mainly use the wolf and if I know my opponent has a lot of flying creatures, then sometimes I use the bird. I won't bother with other pets as the wolf is just too good in the early game (->vigilance+fs<- and 2/1 is just hit-and-run.. back to home for defense) I only have few opinions on pets, they are fun though, but for ideas I think spider pet 1/3 with reach (as of lvl 6) or poisonous frog/snake for poison play (infect or poisonous) And sorry if this post is somewhat hard to understand, english isn't my spoken language and I have a high fever

yeah, I really think the wolf is a tad broken. especially if you start equipping it with Swords of X and Y or even something weaker like Bonesplitter it suddenly becomes an unstoppable offense/defense.

the Bird is really there for the utility of looting. you can keep questionable hands and simply loot for lands/spells. Flying is a big evasion too, ends up connecting Swords/Jitte too easily.

the other pets aren't on par with those two. I don't remember what they do, but I doubt they are as useful as wolf/bird as of right now.

ideas for the other pets:

- Red: definitely needs haste. following red's color pie, the pet could be a Lightning Serpent variant. When it attacks you may pay X. If you do, it gains +X/+0, Trample and Sac at EOT

- Black: we could have some sort of Will-o'-the-wisp (or whatever it's called). 0/1 Defender flying and Pay X: Regenerate, where X could be B, 1 or 1 life.

- Green: like Juho said, a Spider would fit very well. 1/4 Reach and something else. Or something completely different, like a 3/3 with T: Fights another target creature or 2/3 Hexproof.

- White: Vigilance really needs to be something else. Exalted perhaps?

- Blue: Either loot or evasion needs to changed. Maybe some sort of Enclave Cryptologist? 0/1; 1, T: Loot and 5, T: Draw a card?

that way each color has a different purpose, each match would require a different pet.

I didn't vote myself, because I didn't want to skew the results.

I agree about White needing a nerf. I find myself mostly gravitating towards it basically every new quest. Exalted could be a good replacement, I'll have to consider a few options.

Lazylockie, your Red suggestion is basically what the Hound is right now. Except it doesn't gain trample when you firebreath it. Also, it's an activated ability, not a trigger. (Triggers are annoying for something you'll only use once a game.) It's pretty strong in a Sligh style deck.

I don't like Hexproof on a pet, it makes them too hard to kill. I'd be ok with Shroud, since then you couldn't mass buff them and just beat your opponent down. The Crocodile currently has Shroud during the Opponents turns, and Deathtouch which means the AI doesn't block smartly against. So I find I can get a free two damage every turn with it. I'm ok with having a defensive Pet (or two?) but defensive Black cards seem off flavor to me.

I like the Green pet, since it feels very green (trample, if blocking or blocked can pay 2 to go from 2/1 to 4/3), but I'd be ok with it becoming some type of defensive Spider. I don't seem to use this one very often. 3/3 Fight is way too strong for a Pet, even if it's not allowed to attack.

Funnily enough, I rarely find myself using the Blue pet, although I see that the Loot could give too much of a boost. How many times do you use it? Maybe I'll figure out a different way to allow a very limited amount of looting.

Red pet + Channel = gg Thats why I use the hound.

Maybe it's just time to introduce a second pet for each color with some of the suggestions? It will give users that like longer quests something else to spend their excess money on: pet menagerie.

Maybe if we manage three creatures for each colour you could also start looking into things like a collector's bonus for having all pets of a color maxed out. Then it becomes worthwhile to get pets you wouldn't usually buy. Maybe as a 'Pet Master' you could revive your pet once per match or something similar or give it a power boost?

friarsol wrote:I didn't vote myself, because I didn't want to skew the results.

I agree about White needing a nerf. I find myself mostly gravitating towards it basically every new quest. Exalted could be a good replacement, I'll have to consider a few options.

Lazylockie, your Red suggestion is basically what the Hound is right now. Except it doesn't gain trample when you firebreath it. Also, it's an activated ability, not a trigger. (Triggers are annoying for something you'll only use once a game.) It's pretty strong in a Sligh style deck.

I don't like Hexproof on a pet, it makes them too hard to kill. I'd be ok with Shroud, since then you couldn't mass buff them and just beat your opponent down. The Crocodile currently has Shroud during the Opponents turns, and Deathtouch which means the AI doesn't block smartly against. So I find I can get a free two damage every turn with it. I'm ok with having a defensive Pet (or two?) but defensive Black cards seem off flavor to me.

I like the Green pet, since it feels very green (trample, if blocking or blocked can pay 2 to go from 2/1 to 4/3), but I'd be ok with it becoming some type of defensive Spider. I don't seem to use this one very often. 3/3 Fight is way too strong for a Pet, even if it's not allowed to attack.

Funnily enough, I rarely find myself using the Blue pet, although I see that the Loot could give too much of a boost. How many times do you use it? Maybe I'll figure out a different way to allow a very limited amount of looting.

on theory all of pets seem balanced, it's just that on practice the Bird / Wolf are simply just better than the others. another idea for the Bird is to change from an triggered ability (which is annoying anyway) into an activated ability, like:

1/3
Flying
1, T: Loot

that way you either loot or you get a evasive beater, you can't get both. although you still get a blocker+looter, which is still strong. maybe 1/1? for a controllish deck, a free looting (in the sense that it doesn't use a spell slots in your deck) is very strong, due to the versatility it generates. Need lands early? loot. Need business spell late game? save your excess lands and loot.

and hence I suggested other utility pets, instead of just bashers.

moomarc said it before I could. I would definitely like to see more variety of pets and/or more upgrade options.

I keep checking out the bazaar to see what I can do with my money, but I've upgraded the ape all the way and I am one level away from a fully upgraded croc, but I stopped playing the black deck, in favor of a green elf deck I was able to build after accumulating more cards early on. I don't see much value in upgrading the pets that are currently off color to my quest deck(s).

Maybe split paths of upgrades - two or three or more different possible ultimate-levels for each pet. Each pet starts out the same, but the upgrades have two options. Maybe the options are priced differently to match their level of bonus...

Now, as for the pets and their abilities as-is:

(can I request that the picture of the pet in the pet shop be clickable for larger view?)

Wolf - is good. Vigilence is fine, especially in white, so would a bonus when attacking if a further upgrade was offered.

Bird - don't currently use it, but I was just reading its description. Hawks are birds of the land, not birds of the sea. (a white falcon or hawk would be nice as well) A heron would be about right, it flies and dives to catch its prey. (ok, ok, it's catching fish under water..) Trying to think of another pet that would be in-flavor as a pet and in blue, thinking fish/shark but generally they would require islandwalk (fish on land?) (sharknado anyone?). A turtle would be a good option.

Croc - is weak, for a freaking croc.
BTW, if we would find it in our hearts to put in some flavor text, we should use something like: "Look at those teeth, isn't she gorgeous?" I really miss you Steve....

Hound - also don't use it. But I also feel Hound and Wolf are too close... I know these are "pets" and Hounds are red.. but wouldn't a pet dragon be cooler?

Ape - I'm frustrated with requiring blocking for the pump effect. It's rarely blocked, sometimes I'm tapped out, sometimes I forget. Also, it feels more white for an ability like pump to be contingent on combat. Green is direct pump, maybe with a once-per-turn clause.

The Plant - shouldn't be green. Might as well be a pet rock, like an artifact creature. Makes it a little more vulnerable.. but then it could be made stronger.. 1/4 with Wither... yawn.. AI doesn't dare attack most of the time unless there's evasion of some sort, I just keep tapping it on AI's EoT to get my free life....

Allowing use of more than one pet at a time would also be a benefit, an upgrade we can purchase.... Or simply open the plant's spot for a second pet.. or even two different "plants" (or pet rocks or whatever or each color has a defensive pet and an offensive pet [with green's defensive "pet" being the plant {spider can be defensive, but a venus fly trap plant could have reach and stay in-flavor}])

I really like Rob's idea of having a split "skill tree" style option. Having two different choices each time you level up adds some depth.

The pet I use largely depends on the deck I am playing with. The Wolf pet is great for most defensive decks, as it can get some early swings and and stay up to defend.

The Hound pet is really great in aggro decks. I use it a lot with vampires and the like because haste is just awesome.

The Bird is great for most control decks and combo decks, as looting helps you get the lands/cards you need for the situation. I think it would actually be more powerful if it tapped to loot, though.

The paths idea sounds ok, but would be less ideal for people who like making a lot of different decks, unless you allow unlocking each path as a playable pet, given enough credits.

One major idea you could go with here, I think, is making one path utility and the other aggro. Here are my suggestions: Red: a 2/1 haste hound with the ability it has now, or a 0/2 haste snake, with T/Ping for 1. Green: a 3/1 ape with trample, regenerate G, or a 0/1 squirrel with G, T/Search for a forest, put it into your hand. Black: a 1/1 bat with flying and lifelink, or a 1/1 rat with sacrifice this card, each opponent discards a card. Blue: a 2/2 seagull with flying and can only block flyers, or a 0/4 turtle with 1, T/Loot. White: 2/1 wolf with exalted and vigilance, or a 0/1 dove with flying and X, T/Prevent the next X damage to target player/creature.

I also question the plant a little bit, as to why it is the only one in that path. Perhaps a defender of each color, rather than just a green one?

Those are only a few suggestions, but they were what came to mind. Explore the colors a bit, I am sure there are many animals that could be considered familiars for each of the colors.

Alico wrote:I also question the plant a little bit, as to why it is the only one in that path. Perhaps a defender of each color, rather than just a green one?

Yea, when I originally explored new Pets I had plans to balance the Plant and make it an artifact, but it just never happened. I'm not a big fan of the Plants abilities. So I may target that one next.

I'm going to be nerfing the Bird and Wolf sometime soon. But I want to play with them a bit more before I do so (and get our resident artist to change the text of the art when I'm ready)

Bird will become "Flying, When ~ deals combat damage, you may pay X. If you do, scry 1." (Not sure if X is going to be 1 mana or 2 mana.)
Wolf will become "First strike, lifelink." (Exalted in some cases was stronger than Vigilance, and gives you a 3 power creature to start the game, which I definitely don't want).

friarsol wrote:Bird will become "Flying, When ~ deals combat damage, you may pay X. If you do, scry 1." (Not sure if X is going to be 1 mana or 2 mana.)

couldn't it be 1, T: Scry 1 or 2, T: Scry 1?