MTG Forge beta - balanced quest cards

[Rob Cashwalker]

For the benefit of quest mode, should we add some more counterspell card options to beef up blue? We've been reluctant so far, because the computer can't play it... yet.

I know I've been stubborn about it, and use it as an excuse to ignore a particular effect even though it's common. Like P/T pumps that are only good during combat or damage only during combat. If I ignored the limitation of the current AI structure, PTPump could have cousin keywords, APTPump, BPTPump, and ABPTPump... and a couple dozen more cards.

Possible Keyword:
spCounterTarget:[spell, creature, instant, sorcery, instant or sorcery] (should cover most all possibilities)

And card drawing needs a keyword.
spDraw:#

Some of the computer decks in quest mode must be brutal, and probably could be made more so, if the tools are given to the human, even if outside of quest mode the computer will have issue with it. If quest mode uses its own lists anyway, the regular drafting mode or random deck mode don't have to be impacted.

[Chris H.]

In quest mode, the computer is only capable of using pre-constructed decks. Currently, none of the computer's pre-constructed quest decks contain spell-counters.

If we came up with some sort of a "weighted" system where the computer could make use of spell-counters. Wow. The computer would not need to make the best possible decision in all cases.

While constructing the AI decks for quest mode, I had investigated to see if I could give the computer the enchantment Counterbalance. I felt that the computer would rarely counter a spell with this card, but think of how this could annoy us humans while the computer had this in play.

[Rob Cashwalker]

I think you missed my point. The computer doesn't and couldn't play counterspells. I'm just suggesting that this isn't an issue, because the computer's decks won't contain any cards that the computer can't play effectively.

[Chris H.]

I think you missed my point. The computer doesn't and couldn't play counterspells. I'm just suggesting that this isn't an issue, because the computer's decks won't contain any cards that the computer can't play effectively.

I think that I understand the various points that you made, I just commented on one small part of the big picture.

I'm all for adding more blue cards. They tend to be complicated and coming up with effective AI code can be a challenge. I do like your ideas for the two keywords.

I can't help but to look forward to a day when the computer might be able to use spell counters, even if it's ability is fairly limited. If we ever get to a point where we start to get serious about this, then Counterbalance might turn out to be simpler to implement than some of the others.

[GandoTheBard]

Personally it seems to me that blue is shunted aside because the main coders do not care much for blue. No Jace, no Other blue Planeswalker. But also as you said the blue spells tend to be a bit more complex than other colors since it is the color of trickery.

Anyway Morphling should help some Tradewind Riders should help too. As far as not playing with Counterspells because they are denied to the AI, I guess they would be best against the hard decks. I still feel the quest packs should be teired into sets and the higher value ones put into sets that come as rewards for winning against the harder decks.

I also still think it would be very interesting to get ante instead of just random packs/rares.

[Chris H.]

I also still think it would be very interesting to get ante instead of just random packs/rares.

I could live with this if it was just an option, that is, I would like to be able to decline an ante match if one was offered.

[DennisBergkamp]

Personally it seems to me that blue is shunted aside because the main coders do not care much for blue. No Jace, no Other blue Planeswalker. But also as you said the blue spells tend to be a bit more complex than other colors since it is the color of trickery.

Anyway Morphling should help some Tradewind Riders should help too. As far as not playing with Counterspells because they are denied to the AI, I guess they would be best against the hard decks. I still feel the quest packs should be teired into sets and the higher value ones put into sets that come as rewards for winning against the harder decks.

I also still think it would be very interesting to get ante instead of just random packs/rares.

Actually, in magic blue is my favorite color (I love drawing cards!). Undermine, Absorb, Exclude, etc. were actually some of the first cards I added when I started out messing with the code.
I would like to add Fact or Fiction (so powerful), but it's tricky.

The main reason I guess I haven't added many blue cards is because of the AI not being able to use counterspells, and cards like Jace I haven't added because milling a deck in forge does not count as a win condition. Even though Jace wouldn't be difficult to code at all (maybe a little tedious...).
But yes, definitely, blue cards are also just more complex in general, and that counts as a major reason.

One thing I could do, is actually add milling as a win/lose condition (and allow the user to enable/disable this from the menu - I for one wouldn't like this enabled all of the time, since some of the testing would become a major pain).

Rob, yes I think an spCounterTarget keyword would be awesome.

[Arcanis222]

I Think jace should definetly be implemented. In most cases jace is used for CA (Card Advantage) Not Mill, Because he's used in decks like faeries, just for repeatable card draw, Milling is only an option in a deck really orientated for Mill.
P.S I'd Really love Blue/White Cards. I love that form of drawing cards, and locking down the opponent, I neeeeeeeddd Ith, High Arcanist!