Programming isn't free or easy

[mtgrares]

This is in response to people's wish lists. I understand people want more, so do I, but like the song says "wishing won't make it so". Programming is very, very hard. It is very similar to a car engine, any tiny thing will make it stop. Just because MTG Forge is a free program doesn't mean that it didn't cost anything to write. I understand that people have wish lists, they also have to understand why I don't (or can't currently do it) program them. (I'm not mad but maybe a little irritated.) I'm glad that people like MTG Forge and voice their opinion about it.

[DennisBergkamp]

Agreed, programming is definitely not easy, and stuff like "adding a manapool" into forge is a very tricky thing indeed, and unfortunately much more difficult than it seems.

Having said that, I do appreciate the stuff you guys post in the card request thread and other innovations/fixes you would like to see implemented. It provides me with some direction and often inspiration. But, as Rares stated, please understand that some of the requests are just not feasible in the near future

[Arcanis222]

Mtg, I think that.. Some people take things for granted some times. Really everyone is really appreciative of the sacrifises, and work you guys pour into this.
I'd Probably attempt to help with coding if me and java didn't constantly have disputes. (My Computer skills are pretty much restricted to flash..)
Anyway, I think you have a right to express yourself, and that everything can't be done when it's something sophisticated and as complicated as it is.

[mtgrares]

Writing a program like MTG Forge is like writing a novel. Anyone one can do it, but most people don't because it is too hard.

[mtgrares]

I'd probably attempt to help with coding if me and java didn't constantly have disputes.

MTG Forge isn't very modular (broken into parts) so I don't think anyone else could really help, even if they knew Java backwards and forwards (aka. very well).

[Arcanis222]

Hmm well. Im fine with just spreading by word of mouth, and testing, and making a few decks here and there for the forum.
I'd be happy to do any miscellanous things to help out.

[MageKing17]

I understand people want more, so do I, but like the song says "wishing won't make it so". Programming is very, very hard.

Well, some things are harder than others. The problem is that non-coder users generally don't know the difference between "would take seconds to change" and "would require rewriting the engine from scratch".

[GandoTheBard]

I understand people want more, so do I, but like the song says "wishing won't make it so". Programming is very, very hard.

Well, some things are harder than others. The problem is that non-coder users generally don't know the difference between "would take seconds to change" and "would require rewriting the engine from scratch".

Even coders may not know the different those two conditions are in a specific program is without knowing the code or language.

That said IMHO card/mechanic requests are a good thing. They are NOT demands and they do inform the developing coders what they are doing right. I think also it should be said that the fact that people do code for free when they could be maybe making a product that they can sell is something that I for one appreciate. I have written countless FAQs, and strategy guides for various games both online and off so I have an idea of how selfless such an act is.

On the other hand I don't think anyone has been demanding or rude about these requests.

[zerker2000]

Agreed, programming is definitely not easy, and stuff like "adding a manapool" into forge is a very tricky thing indeed, and unfortunately much more difficult than it seems.

Can someone coding please comment on my "Mana Pool" post, I understand there are probably problems with my suggestions, so will someone please tell me where they are?

[Rob Cashwalker]

MTG Forge isn't very modular (broken into parts) so I don't think anyone else could really help, even if they knew Java backwards and forwards (aka. very well).

Rares, you keep selling yourself short and insulting your project.

I never had an interest in playing with Java seriously until jumping into the project. There are a lot of concepts that were completely new to me.

The project code is actually somewhat straight-forward. As an experienced coder in VB, with familiarity in C/C++, I can at least follow along and fill in the blanks from online reference guides.

We had someone jump in and inside of only a week turned around code to add spDamageCP, instantly giving us many burn spells. That's no small feat, if "nobody else could really help". And he did it the "right way" with the ability code stored in CardFactoryUtil.

Open source software isn't about working for free. It's about working for yourself. We use the software we write. If we think it's useful, it's very likely someone else will too. Left to our own devices, we might write our own Magic games... but why re-invent the wheel?

MTGForge might not be a perfectly smooth wheel, but hey, we're still in the stone age chipping away with chisels.... Hopefully you will be giving us the tools to enter the bronze age, and we'll work on that until we can build a "forge" for the steel age and beyond!

[DennisBergkamp]

Well said, Rob I agree 100%, I don't consider myself a java expert at all, yet I have found most of the code in Forge to be fairly easy to understand.
There are many intricacies, of course, but that is to be expected of a project of such a scale.

[MageKing17]

I didn't know Python at all until I started working on Incantus. Well, to be more accurate, I didn't know Python at all until I started working on cards for Incantus. I was already a coder, of course, but I basically learned the rudiments of Python in about ten minutes with the CardEditor.

[mtgrares]

Thanks for the compliments Dennis and Rob. MTG Forge doesn't have any internal documentation so I'm glad that you guys can understand most of the stuff that I did. I just know the some parts of the code like InputControl and CardFactory are very messy. I am a perfectionist, maybe all programmers aren't, but since programming involves a million details being a perfectionist helps.

I like this quote Rob,

MTGForge might not be a perfectly smooth wheel, but hey, we're still in the stone age chipping away with chisels.... Hopefully you will be giving us the tools to enter the bronze age, and we'll work on that until we can build a "forge" for the steel age and beyond!

You should be a writer, lol. I would put all of that in the program title bar (the blue thingy at the top) but it is too long,

I did work some on version 2 last night. I have abstract classes named Cost, Target, and Effect and I'm trying to piece them together. SpellAbility will combine these three objects and call them accordingly.

[zerker2000]

I like this quote Rob,

MTGForge might not be a perfectly smooth wheel, but hey, we're still in the stone age chipping away with chisels.... Hopefully you will be giving us the tools to enter the bronze age, and we'll work on that until we can build a "forge" for the steel age and beyond!

You should be a writer

Yes, very nice metaphors, and I also strongly support Rob's explanation of free software.

EDIT: i.e. "free as in speech and not free as in beer": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software

Another EDIT: about putting it in the title bar, you could put this( and the sentence before it) into Forge 2 's About Section.

[Rob Cashwalker]

Not that there's anything wrong with free beer.....

I am a technical writer.. doing documentation for my companys' software.

I think a big part of our willingness to help maintain development on this project is that we're mature. While most Magic gamers are kids, and kid programmers don't usually have the drive to keep working on a problem until it's finished. There are a lot of various projects that go nowhere on Sourceforge, many of them were probably started by overly ambitious high school and early college kids. I'm 31, and have been programming since I was 17. I won't stop working on something (software and my theater set construction) until I feel it's done, really done. Like stick a fork in it, and it's DONE!