Nekoatl wrote:elcnesh wrote:Nekoatl wrote:Dream Chisel still is not correctly reducing the morph casting cost of
Zoetic Cavern (as noted
here and
here). Predictably,
Whetwheel is also affected by this bug.
As a possible fix, I thought removing "ValidCard$ Creature" might work, but it still only reduces the cost of morph creature spells if the original card is also a creature card, so I suspect the problem lies within the Java code for MorphDown. If I can figure out how to download the Java source code, I'll try to confirm that.
It's a bit more complicated than that... Removing the clause would probably not have any side-effects, since the only face-down castable spells are morphs (checked in Gatherer). But I digged a bit deeper and the problem was more involved, also prohibiting a spell to be cast face down when it was named with e.g.
Conjurer's Ban. So I fixed it in the source, which also fixed the
Zoetic Cavern problem
Thanks very much, but now that I think about it,
Conjurer's Ban should perhaps actually stop them from being played. The key difference is that
Dream Chisel affects spells, but
Conjurer's Ban affects cards. I can see arguments either way, but this being MTG, there's probably a definitive answer out there, and I'm looking for it right now. I'll update this post with whatever I find.
Edit: Nope, you were right. I was thinking that casting a spell resulted from playing a card, but it's actually the same action, so the morphed cards should get past
Conjurer's Ban.
The relevant rule is:
707.4. Objects that are cast face down are turned face down before they are put onto the stack, so effects that care about the characteristics of a spell will see only the face-down spell’s characteristics. Any effects or prohibitions that would apply to casting an object with these characteristics (and not the face-up object’s characteristics) are applied to casting this object. The permanent the spell becomes will be a face-down permanent.
Basically, if
Conjurer's Ban applied in this situation, then there would be (in paper game) an opportunity to cheat, as you could sneak the "banned" morph onto the battlefield and later claim that you did it in different turn. Or, opponent could call judge to verify that the morph you're casting is not illegal. Both are things Wizards tend to avoid (this is for example why every search for a card with specific characteristics involves revealing it).
As long as we talk about morph, I think Forge still lacks this rule:
707.9. If a face-down permanent moves from the battlefield to any other zone, its owner must reveal it to all players as he or she moves it. If a face-down spell moves from the stack to any zone other than the battlefield, its owner must reveal it to all players as he or she moves it. At the end of each game, all face-down permanents and spells must be revealed to all players.
While this isn't necessary since the main reason for the rule (stopping cheating) is not applicable to Forge, it would still be nice.
Posted: 09 Jun 2014, 14:45
, and then sacrificed a