Collectible Card Game Headquarters

A while ago I asked if it was possible to use cards that don't have A.I, you would have to manually control the game state which at the time was not an option and did not seem like an option in the future but its been a while so I was wondering if anything like this has been added? Or if there are any other programs that do this?

Kefka wrote:A while ago I asked if it was possible to use cards that don't have A.I, you would have to manually control the game state which at the time was not an option and did not seem like an option in the future but its been a while so I was wondering if anything like this has been added? Or if there are any other programs that do this?

On the bright side Mogg Flunkies and friends were finally added today but as for the rest, a month definitely isn't enough time to implement the sorts of changes you wanted. As mentioned last time, allowing the player to play against an AI opponent in most instances clashes with the concept of a player controlled freeplay game state. You might be able to find other options from the main board index here but I think that they're human vs human.

moomarc wrote:

Kefka wrote:A while ago I asked if it was possible to use cards that don't have A.I, you would have to manually control the game state which at the time was not an option and did not seem like an option in the future but its been a while so I was wondering if anything like this has been added? Or if there are any other programs that do this?

On the bright side Mogg Flunkies and friends were finally added today but as for the rest, a month definitely isn't enough time to implement the sorts of changes you wanted. As mentioned last time, allowing the player to play against an AI opponent in most instances clashes with the concept of a player controlled freeplay game state. You might be able to find other options from the main board index here but I think that they're human vs human.

Huh? Its been over a year since I last posted about this. I just want something that allows me to use all the cards(and use the artwork/style from there proper sets). I tried using making at least half a dozen of my decks in Forge at that time and none of them could be made(I like Block decks). The computer could do its basic stuff with whatever cards have AI. And the player can play all cards, the ones that don't have AI he would simply have to change the game state manually, change life totals,etc.

Also has an undo button been added? And can you now use the card from the set you want? For example if I make where to create my Ice Age Necro block deck can I use the Ice Dark ritual,etc?

Kefka wrote:Huh? Its been over a year since I last posted about this. I just want something that allows me to use all the cards(and use the artwork/style from there proper sets). I tried using making at least half a dozen of my decks in Forge at that time and none of them could be made(I like Block decks). The computer could do its basic stuff with whatever cards have AI. And the player can play all cards, the ones that don't have AI he would simply have to change the game state manually, change life totals,etc.

Also has an undo button been added? And can you now use the card from the set you want? For example if I make where to create my Ice Age Necro block deck can I use the Ice Dark ritual,etc?

 
Hmmm, it is unlikely that forge will ever include all of the cards. And even if we reach that point in the future it is unlikely that we will be able to improve the AI to the point where the AI could play all cards in an effective fashion.

Dozens of people have dedicated tremendous amounts of their limited free time over the last 5 years in an effort to get this app to it's present state.

Forge now has over 11,000 cards in total. This is an incredible amount of cards to implement and we are lucky in that the AI can use about 75% of them.

Marc provided a reasonable suggestion. If someone wishes to play with all cards ever printed and wishes to do so in an environment where the code does not enforce the rules ... there are better options available to these individuals. Forge was never intended to be this type of app.

Those who have coding skills that contribute to the forge project tend to work on areas that interest them personally. Their interests may not be the same as your own interests.

Implementing an undo button would likely require a major rewrite to the code base.

You can load your deck file into a text editor and change the card set codes for any of the cards that are in your deck. I do not believe that we can assign a specific set to a given card in the deck editor at this time. This might change at some point in the future.

Chris H. wrote:

Kefka wrote:Huh? Its been over a year since I last posted about this. I just want something that allows me to use all the cards(and use the artwork/style from there proper sets). I tried using making at least half a dozen of my decks in Forge at that time and none of them could be made(I like Block decks). The computer could do its basic stuff with whatever cards have AI. And the player can play all cards, the ones that don't have AI he would simply have to change the game state manually, change life totals,etc.

Also has an undo button been added? And can you now use the card from the set you want? For example if I make where to create my Ice Age Necro block deck can I use the Ice Dark ritual,etc?

 
Hmmm, it is unlikely that forge will ever include all of the cards. And even if we reach that point in the future it is unlikely that we will be able to improve the AI to the point where the AI could play all cards in an effective fashion.

Dozens of people have dedicated tremendous amounts of their limited free time over the last 5 years in an effort to get this app to it's present state.

Forge now has over 11,000 cards in total. This is an incredible amount of cards to implement and we are lucky in that the AI can use about 75% of them.

Marc provided a reasonable suggestion. If someone wishes to play with all cards ever printed and wishes to do so in an environment where the code does not enforce the rules ... there are better options available to these individuals. Forge was never intended to be this type of app.

Those who have coding skills that contribute to the forge project tend to work on areas that interest them personally. Their interests may not be the same as your own interests.

Implementing an undo button would likely require a major rewrite to the code base.

You can load your deck file into a text editor and change the card set codes for any of the cards that are in your deck. I do not believe that we can assign a specific set to a given card in the deck editor at this time. This might change at some point in the future.

I don't want to play in an environment without rule enforcement, I want the A.I. But be able to use any cards, and simply handle those cards myself if there is no A.I. The computer would never use those cards and would be limited to the cards with A.I.

Also I don't care about improving the A.I if you can that's great, if not ok. I just want to use my decks from real life(or from other gold fish type programs like Magic Suitcase) and use them in Forge. If a card does not have A.I, say like Mogg Flunkies did not last time I ask about it(I know it does now), I would simply control that myself, reduce life totals, etc like in Apprentice. And being able to change the game state would be good for those who have no issue making decks in Forge just to set up interesting situations or to undo mistakes.

Is there any A.I program that allows one to use any cards(again I don't care if the computer is only limited to a small % of the total)? The cards without A.I, I would just cast manually like Apprentice, or it could be totally manual on my end and the computer is automated.

Since it been over a year since I tried Forge perhaps I can now make some of my block decks, I do think it would be a great idea to have the cards from the set you want though, so for My Tempest Block Suicide black deck D. Ritual from Tempest, for my Ice Age Necro, Ice Age Dark Rituals,etc

Kefka wrote:I don't want to play in an environment without rule enforcement, I want the A.I. But be able to use any cards, and simply handle those cards myself if there is no A.I. The computer would never use those cards and would be limited to the cards with A.I.

Unfortunately they way I picture it, these two scenarios are mutually exclusive. Either you enforce as many of the rules that you can (and can have an AI) or you enforce none of the rules (like Apprentice or Cockatrice).
Adding a layer of complete control of the engine seems like a very large direction shift from our current direction. You may be able to do some of the control with the dev mode, but I'm not sure this is what you are looking for.

Kefka wrote:Is there any A.I program that allows one to use any cards(again I don't care if the computer is only limited to a small % of the total)? The cards without A.I, I would just cast manually like Apprentice, or it could be totally manual on my end and the computer is automated.

I don't know of any program that does that, but most of us know primarily about Forge. You can ask on the other software forums that you can find on slightlymagic.

friarsol wrote:

Kefka wrote:I don't want to play in an environment without rule enforcement, I want the A.I. But be able to use any cards, and simply handle those cards myself if there is no A.I. The computer would never use those cards and would be limited to the cards with A.I.

Unfortunately they way I picture it, these two scenarios are mutually exclusive. Either you enforce as many of the rules that you can (and can have an AI) or you enforce none of the rules (like Apprentice or Cockatrice).
Adding a layer of complete control of the engine seems like a very large direction shift from our current direction. You may be able to do some of the control with the dev mode, but I'm not sure this is what you are looking for.

Kefka wrote:Is there any A.I program that allows one to use any cards(again I don't care if the computer is only limited to a small % of the total)? The cards without A.I, I would just cast manually like Apprentice, or it could be totally manual on my end and the computer is automated.

I don't know of any program that does that, but most of us know primarily about Forge. You can ask on the other software forums that you can find on slightlymagic.

What is this dev mode your talking about? Adding the ability for the player to mess with the game state would be helpful to undo moves, set up interesting scenarios for example trying to win with the cpu having 100 life you have 5, or you get 2 lands to start the game with,etc. And it would allow you to use cards that don't have A.I or have limited A.I. Basically take apprentice type program and give the option for computer control opponent(even if there are only a limited number of decks that the cpu can use).

@Kefka: My apologies for saying it was a month ago instead of a year ago since you last brought this up (the year's gone by quickly and I was tired). Anyway, the developer's mode mentioned by friarsol can be enabled from the settings page and will unhide a dock/tab during a match (it will probably start out in the match info dock as a tab in the extended tabs (the '+' dropdown)). From there you have a few options that you might find useful. You can tap/untap any permanent on the battlefield, set life totals for either player, get any card in your library (or any card supported by forge) and add up to 99 counters of any type supported by Forge to any permanent on the battlefield, and add 10 mana of each type to your mana pool. Dev mode also allows you to play any number of lands in a turn and to prevent death-by-milling. The last feature in dev mode you might find useful is the game state setup file. Use this to load a game state as defined in a text document. Check out this thread for details on how to use it. It doesn't cover all scenarios but does help.

One other thing that might help is adding this guy to your deck: It's a creature that the AI can't target and if something does happen to it he'll just return to your hand. Scrolling through his abilities gives you access to some common features that aren't in dev mode such as changing control of permanents, changing zones, change colors, add poison counters etc. It's grown over time as I've needed more functions for testing scripts, and likewise if you need it to do extra things that it can't yet (like move cards to your library or milling yourself) grab some script from another card that does what you need. It just means its not something I've used in testing much.

Hope you can get what you want from those (because I don't think Forge will ever offer the full layering you want, or not in the next year anyway)

Edit: OH, one last point. For set specific images, when you create your deck in deck editor, use the filters to add only the set you want. Then any card added to your deck will be assigned that set info.

moomarc wrote:@Kefka: My apologies for saying it was a month ago instead of a year ago since you last brought this up (the year's gone by quickly and I was tired). Anyway, the developer's mode mentioned by friarsol can be enabled from the settings page and will unhide a dock/tab during a match (it will probably start out in the match info dock as a tab in the extended tabs (the '+' dropdown)). From there you have a few options that you might find useful. You can tap/untap any permanent on the battlefield, set life totals for either player, get any card in your library (or any card supported by forge) and add up to 99 counters of any type supported by Forge to any permanent on the battlefield, and add 10 mana of each type to your mana pool. Dev mode also allows you to play any number of lands in a turn and to prevent death-by-milling. The last feature in dev mode you might find useful is the game state setup file. Use this to load a game state as defined in a text document. Check out this thread for details on how to use it. It doesn't cover all scenarios but does help.

One other thing that might help is adding this guy to your deck:

trained_kraj.txt

It's a creature that the AI can't target and if something does happen to it he'll just return to your hand. Scrolling through his abilities gives you access to some common features that aren't in dev mode such as changing control of permanents, changing zones, change colors, add poison counters etc. It's grown over time as I've needed more functions for testing scripts, and likewise if you need it to do extra things that it can't yet (like move cards to your library or milling yourself) grab some script from another card that does what you need. It just means its not something I've used in testing much.

Hope you can get what you want from those (because I don't think Forge will ever offer the full layering you want, or not in the next year anyway)

Edit: OH, one last point. For set specific images, when you create your deck in deck editor, use the filters to add only the set you want. Then any card added to your deck will be assigned that set info.

This dev mode sounds very interesting and would have help for sure with a multi color deck I made, Forge at the time did not support the city type land that was legal in that block so I just used City, and only used the land under the restrictions that it had(I think it was it could be only use to cast creatures). Of course the game still took a life point away which was annoying this would have solved that problem.

Also thanks for the info regarding the cards pics that's great news, I will also check out the links thanks for your help.

Hi guys, I'm new to Forge, but I'm really impressed with how it's shaping up (and a brief scan of the forum shows how far it's come in the last year - wow!)

I've been having a blast playing the last couple days and, of course, I've been developing my little internal wishlist of features. Looking back through this thread, basically all of them have been brought up. I hope it's alright if I throw my support behind a few of these:

1. Subdirectories for the deck browser. Somewhere way down the line it would be nice to filter decks by block, legality, etc., but I know that's a ways off. At the moment, though, I think a rudimentary folder structure would go a long way in improving usability.

2. Creating separate stacks of attacking tokens, or simply tapping them (perhaps with an outline) to make clicking on the cards behind them easier (and to see whether or not they've got the "attack declared" token.)

3. Reworking the "play with the top card of your deck exposed" functionality so that you mouse over your deck icon to see the card rather than over the permanent which grants the ability. For cards that allow you to play the top card, it also seems odd to play a card "off" of another card in play.

4. The addition of some kind of prompt with a card image (preferably next to its targets) when the AI plays instants or cards that resolve instantaneously. I know this is probably already on the to-do list, and the current implementation is functional, but I'm always clicking through then checking the opponent's graveyard to see what happened to my creatures. XD

And three minor aesthetic issues (that are nonetheless close to my heart):

5. Reworking the "when this card comes into play, exile X card" ability so that the exiled card is layed underneath the card with the exile ability (although I do like the "Remembered:" tag.)

6. Making white borders optional for older sets. I appreciate the accuracy, but I've always found mixed-border decks distracting. On the bright side, the functionality is already in the game, so it shouldn't be too hard to add a checkbox somewhere in the options.

7. The option to play with lands from a given or random set, or lands drawn from across all sets, in cube/draft/theme decks (or anywhere, really.)

[Extra] I forgot this one. Would it be possible to make right-clicking over empty space function the same as the space-bar?

Sorry to bust in with suggestions, but I'm a bit in love with Forge right now and these were in the front of my mind. I'll keep tabs around here, and try to make myself useful when I can. Thanks to all the contributors for all the work, I'm looking forward to whatever comes in next!

Diogenes wrote:Hi guys, I'm new to Forge, but I'm really impressed with how it's shaping up (and a brief scan of the forum shows how far it's come in the last year - wow!)

I've been having a blast playing the last couple days and, of course, I've been developing my little internal wishlist of features. Looking back through this thread, basically all of them have been brought up. I hope it's alright if I throw my support behind a few of these:

1. Subdirectories for the deck browser. Somewhere way down the line it would be nice to filter decks by block, legality, etc., but I know that's a ways off. At the moment, though, I think a rudimentary folder structure would go a long way in improving usability.

Sorry to bust in with suggestions, but I'm a bit in love with Forge right now and these were in the front of my mind. I'll keep tabs around here, and try to make myself useful when I can. Thanks to all the contributors for all the work, I'm looking forward to whatever comes in next!

This is the feature request thread, I don't think you need to worry about requesting stuff.

I also would like to see the deck editor filter by block(as I play mostly block decks). And I would like to be able to left click once to add a card to a deck(the double clicking is very slow) and right click once to remove it.

Kefka wrote:And I would like to be able to left click once to add a card to a deck(the double clicking is very slow) and right click once to remove it.

Single-click to add a card sounds very unintuitive. How do you just see what a card does?

friarsol wrote:

Kefka wrote:And I would like to be able to left click once to add a card to a deck(the double clicking is very slow) and right click once to remove it.

Single-click to add a card sounds very unintuitive. How do you just see what a card does?

I see two reasonable options. One by moving the cursor around the card changes based on what its on, but that could be annoying depending on how sensitive it is,etc. 2nd option would be that the first click only highlights the card, all other clicks with the LMB add it to you deck, and if you mearly highlight it but its not in your deck the RMB would unhighlight it, on the other hand if in your deck it would remove one copy.

And you should be able to do this from etiher the deck list itself or the card pool list, it very annoying having to go back to the card pool list to add more copies of a card, I should just be able to high the card in the deck list and add/subtract.

Is there a way to reverse the order of the output in the Match Log panel so that I do not need to slide the scroll bar every time I want to see what just happened?

Also does the development Tab only work at certain levels?
I have a quest that is now fighting "Hard" Duels and the Development tab disappeared.
When I start a new Quest it is displayed fine.

Thanks for a Great program

The Development Tab not working sometime seems to be related to the Beta 1.2.10, I reverted back to 1.2.9 and it fixed it.

It would be nice if the card was displayed when mousing over it in the "log" Tab text like it does in the "Stack" tab, I find myself looking up what happened in the Log and then going to the Graveyard to see what the card detail was.

Cheers