Pre-made deck for Quest Mode

[Chris H.]

In message:

Re: MenuItem_HowToPlay.java Update

This isn't the proper topic perhaps, but since you're talking about helping beginners:

What I would REALLY like in forge quest mode is a pre-made deck to begin with. I could tweak from there after playing a round, but starting from scratch is not appealing to me. Is that possible?

(NOTE: I apologize for moving this portion of the message thread.)

I think that there is two different ways that this could be accomplished. Someone(s) could "roll the dice" until a promising pool of cards appeared. Assemble a starter pre-made deck using this card pool and then either:

1. Save this deck and it would become a part of the "questData" file that we would include with our forge releases. The "questData" file can only contain a single card pool at one time.

2. Save this deck and then export the deck into a .deck file with it's card listing in a separate text file.

The first choice would probably be the easiest and require less work but it would only create one pre-made deck for quest mode and just a single card pool.

The second choice would allow the various people in the forge community to create more than just one pre-made deck for quest mode. These people could include a brief description of the card pool and the deck they created and add it to card listing for the .deck file. These .deck files + card listings could be placed in an archive and included with future forge releases.

The second choice will require the user to read the card listings and then consciously import the .deck file into quest mode to play the pre-made deck in quest mode.

We do have several different versions of the quest data files in circulation at this time. The last several versions of forge include an earlier version and we could find that the second choice might result in .deck files that are not compatible with some of these quest data files in circulation.

[Huggybaby]

IMO there should be five pre-made decks, one of each color to choose from.
1. Pick a deck. This deck selection screen would say something like "Choose Your Path, Mage!".
2. Next, customize the deck from a card pool if you want to. This step is optional and skippable. The deck you choose in step one should be playable off the bat.
3. Play the first round and then proceed normally.

[Chris H.]

Some people like to play a long 40+ match quest and some people would rather play a short 10 match quest.

Some people will enjoy creating one card pool after another until they get one that looks promising. Other people might not have the interest or the time to do this. They may decide not to play quest mode unless we provide them with several different starter card-pools/pre-constructed-decks that they could choose from.

If some people contribute a few starter card-pools/pre-constructed-decks I will create one myself. I will combine these files and create a read-me/instructional file. I will then submit the finished product.

This way we can continue to use the existing code base for the time being. The user would still have to use the deck editor for quest mode to import the deck file that interests them.

[Huggybaby]

I'm quite partial to the Speed Scorch precon deck from 8ED, assuming MTGForge implements haste.

[mtgrares]

Starting the quest mode with a basic, prebuilt deck sounds fun. I'm a fan of 8th Edition Decks also, it is one of the few decks that I own in real life.

[Chris H.]

I have discovered something unexpected with the quest mode. This is just an observation and not a complaint.

In quest mode we can create a human-player deck and export it as a .deck file. The .deck file only contains the cards in the deck and does not include the other unused cards from the card pool. The cards in the card pool is separate and are maintained in the questData file.

I also discovered that I could download one of the really good constructed deck files that we have on the decks forum and I can import this tough deck into quest mode and play a quest using this great deck. I just ate the computer for breakfast with the Claiming-the-throne.deck file.

At this time giving the player several Quest Quick-Start Decks to import into quest mode may not be practicle and may lead to play balance issues. I need to think about this … I may decide that this type of option should be hard-coded into the game.

[Huggybaby]

How would balance be affected? Wouldn't you just be sure not to provide an overpowered deck?

[Chris H.]

How would balance be affected? Wouldn't you just be sure not to provide an overpowered deck?

Initially, quest mode gives you a pool of 275 randomly assigned cards. 200 are basic lands. People typically design a 40 card two color deck. At first the decks that we design are not very strong. As the quest continues we win additional cards which can strengthen our decks at a latter time, and we also find ourselves playing against opponent decks which also increase in difficulty.

When you import a .deck file into quest mode the cards for the deck appear in the "Deck" table. The "All Cards" table at the top of the window contains a full-sized card pool of 275 cards. This gives you 75 + 75 non-land cards.

This gives you additional powerful Uncommon and Rare cards to include in your beginning deck.

[Huggybaby]

Hmm, OK. Well the Speed Scorch and Heavy Hitters decks aren't so powerful unless they're tweaked. I'm sure you'll find a way to balance things out.

[Rob Cashwalker]

Those particular decks won't work yet, because at least half of their cards aren't implemented. And a couple of them can't be implemented with the architecture of forge.

The general idea of designing "precons" is good... but it needs to be done within the confines of the forge cardpool.

75 cards is enough to include 3 different precons. (22 cards each, plus a few extras, like Moxen) Whether the user chooses to build the mono-color precon as-is, or they can combine them as they advance.

Also, I think including 40 of each land doesn't make sense.. 275 cards seems kinda intimidating. If there was any way to modify the quest screen to be like the regular deck screen, so as to not require all the basic land to be part of the card pool, that would make for a great improvement.

[silly freak]

i don't know if it works that way... but between the pool and deck list is much space. maybe it's possible to add five basic land add buttons, and just remove the basic lands from the visible list?

[mtgrares]

Basic land buttons sound good (since those are the cards that you use the most). Adding the basic land buttons would be good for both the regular deck editor and the quest deck editor, which are different classes even though they share alot of the same functionality and code.

I have discovered something unexpected with the quest mode. This is just an observation and not a complaint.

Maybe I was thinking something specific and maybe I wasn't. At this moment in time I'm guessing that I wasn't. But as always, "That's not a bug, its a feature." (Disclaimer: Features may have 4 to 6 legs.)

[Chris H.]

Yeah, I do not remember anyone testing the import/export portion for the human player. I used the hidden AI menu for the quest decks and that worked as I expected.

Still, overall the quest mode works fairly well and exceeds my initial expectations. Good job, Rares!

[mtgrares]

Still, overall the quest mode works fairly well and exceeds my initial expectations. Good job, Rares!

Well thanks. At first the quest mode seemed difficult, and then when I started it seemed easy, and then it seemed hard again when I had to answer all of these "small" questions like which cards do you start with and when do you win more cards? I'm glad that the AI opponents have a difficultly curve.