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Marek14 wrote:I had Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, cast Path to Exile on opponent's creature. I heard the sound of library shuffling.

Several possible bugs -- either Path to Exile has the player shuffle the library whether he searches or not or Aven Mindcensor is able to replace library search even though Leonin Arbiter forbids them.

AI definitely didn't pay 2 to search, and then only searched the top 4, then shuffled?

friarsol wrote:

Marek14 wrote:I had Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, cast Path to Exile on opponent's creature. I heard the sound of library shuffling.

Several possible bugs -- either Path to Exile has the player shuffle the library whether he searches or not or Aven Mindcensor is able to replace library search even though Leonin Arbiter forbids them.

AI definitely didn't pay 2 to search, and then only searched the top 4, then shuffled?

Nope, no tapped lands.

Marek14 wrote:I had Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, cast Path to Exile on opponent's creature. I heard the sound of library shuffling.

Several possible bugs -- either Path to Exile has the player shuffle the library whether he searches or not or Aven Mindcensor is able to replace library search even though Leonin Arbiter forbids them.

I gave AI Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor and let ai Path to Exile one of my creatures. I cannot search the library. My library was shuffled, which is the last effect of Path to Exile. I think the bug is the last shuffling part.

swordshine wrote:

Marek14 wrote:I had Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, cast Path to Exile on opponent's creature. I heard the sound of library shuffling.

Several possible bugs -- either Path to Exile has the player shuffle the library whether he searches or not or Aven Mindcensor is able to replace library search even though Leonin Arbiter forbids them.

I gave AI Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor and let ai Path to Exile one of my creatures. I cannot search the library. My library was shuffled, which is the last effect of Path to Exile.

Not really. Path to Exile says:

Exile target creature. Its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.

So, the controller of the target has an option to search his library, put a card onto the battlefield and shuffle the library. Hm. So does this mean he can still choose the option and do as much as he can (which is just shuffling the library) because the option is (nominally) more than just searching the library? As opposed to, say, Boldwyr Heavyweights, which gives just option to search the library (which can't be chosen if searching is impossible) and specifically says to only shuffle a library if it was searched?

Marek14 wrote:

swordshine wrote:

Marek14 wrote:I had Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor, cast Path to Exile on opponent's creature. I heard the sound of library shuffling.

Several possible bugs -- either Path to Exile has the player shuffle the library whether he searches or not or Aven Mindcensor is able to replace library search even though Leonin Arbiter forbids them.

I gave AI Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor and let ai Path to Exile one of my creatures. I cannot search the library. My library was shuffled, which is the last effect of Path to Exile.

Not really. Path to Exile says:

Exile target creature. Its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.

So, the controller of the target has an option to search his library, put a card onto the battlefield and shuffle the library. Hm. So does this mean he can still choose the option and do as much as he can (which is just shuffling the library) because the option is (nominally) more than just searching the library? As opposed to, say, Boldwyr Heavyweights, which gives just option to search the library (which can't be chosen if searching is impossible) and specifically says to only shuffle a library if it was searched?

So the shuffling part of Path to Exile is not mandatory?
When I implemented Leonin Arbiter, I referred to its rulings "1/1/2011: If an effect says "You may search your library . . . If you do, shuffle your library," and you haven't paid , you can't choose to search, so you won't shuffle.
1/1/2011: If an effect says "Search your library . . . Then shuffle your library," and you haven't paid , the search effect fails, but you will still have to shuffle."
I only searched "may search.*if you do" to grant those cards a "ShuffleNonMandatory" parameter.

swordshine wrote:

Marek14 wrote:So, the controller of the target has an option to search his library, put a card onto the battlefield and shuffle the library. Hm. So does this mean he can still choose the option and do as much as he can (which is just shuffling the library) because the option is (nominally) more than just searching the library? As opposed to, say, Boldwyr Heavyweights, which gives just option to search the library (which can't be chosen if searching is impossible) and specifically says to only shuffle a library if it was searched?

So the shuffling part of Path to Exile is not mandatory?
When I implemented Leonin Arbiter, I referred to its rulings "1/1/2011: If an effect says "You may search your library . . . If you do, shuffle your library," and you haven't paid , you can't choose to search, so you won't shuffle.
1/1/2011: If an effect says "Search your library . . . Then shuffle your library," and you haven't paid , the search effect fails, but you will still have to shuffle."
I only searched "may search.*if you do" to grant those cards a "ShuffleNonMandatory" parameter.

The case of Path to Exile is a bit unclear since it's not worded in either of these two ways. The shuffle is not a separate sentence, which means it should be part of the conditional effect. But it's not clear what exactly IS the optional effect. A player can't choose to do something that is impossible, so the question is -- is the choice to search the library, with the other two things (putting land on the battlefield and shuffling the library) dependent on it, or is it the choice to do all these three things (in which case you still could shuffle your library even if you couldn't do the first two things, so it would be allowed).

I think a judge's decision is necessary here...

How can I open this format forge-1.5.28.tar.bz2?
The last one was in zip format?

That's an unusual format on windows, but you can extract with 7zip or winrar (the only 2 tools i use, but other uncompressor tools can certainly do too)
winrar can extract it in 1 step (right click -> extract and you'll obtain the folder)
7zip can extract it in 2 steps (right click extract, you'll obtain a blablabla.tar file then select the .tar file and right click extract again to obtain the actual folder).

Marek14 wrote:The case of Path to Exile is a bit unclear since it's not worded in either of these two ways. The shuffle is not a separate sentence, which means it should be part of the conditional effect. But it's not clear what exactly IS the optional effect. A player can't choose to do something that is impossible, so the question is -- is the choice to search the library, with the other two things (putting land on the battlefield and shuffling the library) dependent on it, or is it the choice to do all these three things (in which case you still could shuffle your library even if you couldn't do the first two things, so it would be allowed).

I think a judge's decision is necessary here...

Ok, I checked in the rules chat: http://chat.magicjudges.org/mtgrules/

The search, put, shuffle are all part of a single action. And you aren't allowed to choose something you can't do (in this case search). So you don't get to shuffle unless you actually search. I'm not sure why they don't use a "If that player does" where Pattern of Rebirth does, but it seems it's actually more common for cards that have other players search to not use the "If they do" when part of an optional search.

Edit: Got a bit more info, Oath of Lieges has the same verbiage, and has this note. "8/1/2008: Shuffling the library is part of the optional effect. The player only shuffles if he or she chose to search." So it looks like it's just two different templates for the same effect, but when the choice is illegal, the shuffle can never happen.

All hail draft reward improvement!

As of the Snapcaster Mage bug:
I tried to reproduce it today, by playing 3 Snapcaster Mages in the same turn. The first Snapcaster in the turn's ability targeted a Path to Exile in my graveyard. Nothing happened. The second one targeted the same Path, and then it showed up in the list of spells with flashback, so I cast it. The third Snapcaser's ability allowed me to target that same Path once again, and as I cast it, I got an option selection screen (as if I were casting a Charm) and there were two identical options (like "Exile target creature. Its controller may search..."). Really weird.

AI stole my Meandering Towershell with Jeering Instigator. He attacked with it, and it went into exile.

On his next combat phase, it reappeared, attacking me, except it was on my side of the battlefield. And, presumably it was under my control, as I was able to attack with it myself on my next turn.

It should have returned to the battlefield under my opponent's control.

Fizanko wrote:That's an unusual format on windows, but you can extract with 7zip or winrar (the only 2 tools i use, but other uncompressor tools can certainly do too)
winrar can extract it in 1 step (right click -> extract and you'll obtain the folder)
7zip can extract it in 2 steps (right click extract, you'll obtain a blablabla.tar file then select the .tar file and right click extract again to obtain the actual folder).

Thank you very much ! It worked, but 1 question why can't I go to the desktop while the AI is fighting 10- times faster in draft ? Now in the newest version the AI is paused when I go to desktop!

if you are playing with "Suppression Field" out, the program will not let you play shocklands. The ETB is a trigger not an activated ability. you should not have to pay 2 to play one. also fetchlands won't let you search unless you pay 2 after the 2 and 1 life.

Minor bug:

Kheru Lich Lord seems to have Trample in Forge, though I don't think the real card does.