A quest strategy question

[mtgrares]

Maybe I just get bored building a deck but I can't seem to make myself play after I get 10 wins. I just love using new cards. I have faced any bosses yet, maybe I can change after 10 wins and change my deck colors in order to keep my interest.

[mtgrares]

What alternate win conditions does fantasy quest support other than decking your opponent?

[DennisBergkamp]

There's a bunch: Poison Counters, and basically all of the cards with alternate win conditions ( Barren Glory, Helix Pinnacle, Felidar Sovereign, Epic Struggle, Battle of Wits, etc. )

[timmermac]

I've currently got 1 more win to get before the sell cap is lifted. I've held off on selling cards with a price too much more than 1000 until I get to 50 wins. I have one card worth 35000, a couple more in the 8000 range and some other high priced lovelies. Probably the biggest contributor to my losses has been deck size. I can't quite seem to trim it to a reasonable level. The red deck is currently sitting at something like 120 card with 42 of them being land. The SliverQuest deck is right around 60, but it isn't anywhere near complete yet. I'm not in front of my computer right now, so I can't post deck lists... I'll be able to do that tomorrow. I want to play with Anger in the red deck, but it slows it down too much.

[Chris H.]

Maybe I just get bored building a deck but I can't seem to make myself play after I get 10 wins. I just love using new cards. I have faced any bosses yet, maybe I can change after 10 wins and change my deck colors in order to keep my interest.

`
The Card Shop and the Bazaar helps to keep your interest level high enough to keep playing. Improving your deck and upgrading the options at the bazaar can keep you busy for some time. And just when it looks like it might be over, there are the (now 18) boss decks to face off against. Dennis had some awesome ideas on how to implement this and I have stepped in and have attempted to take it to the next level.

We all should get a medal every time we beat a boss.

[Chris H.]

I've currently got 1 more win to get before the sell cap is lifted. I've held off on selling cards with a price too much more than 1000 until I get to 50 wins. I have one card worth 35000, a couple more in the 8000 range and some other high priced lovelies. Probably the biggest contributor to my losses has been deck size. I can't quite seem to trim it to a reasonable level. The red deck is currently sitting at something like 120 card with 42 of them being land. The SliverQuest deck is right around 60, but it isn't anywhere near complete yet. I'm not in front of my computer right now, so I can't post deck lists... I'll be able to do that tomorrow. I want to play with Anger in the red deck, but it slows it down too much.

`
I think that once the sell cap was lifted for me I was able to sell enough cards to buy and fully train either the wolf or the wall. It made a difference. Once I had the wall and plant I was able to buy the occasional dual land to help my three color deck.

[timmermac]

I just got my 51st win... Sold an Ancestral Recall. I started buying upgrades. Maxed the plant, it shows up fine. Maxed the wolf and got 3/4 on the croc... They don't show up? Huh? Do I have to do something special?

Edit: Never mind... forgot to look at the drop-down.

[timmermac]

I'm kind of separating things by baseball schedules here... I finished my first "season" 85-77, and I'm currently 5-0 this season. I think I've won at least 30 in a row at this point. The wolf has come in real handy. I got my first Mox (a ruby) as a random rare not too long ago. I'm wondering how often new quests show up, though, since I've beaten the first 3 or 4 and am waiting for the next one to open up. I'm now running my still-evolving sliver deck.

Here are my current decklists.

Red:

2x Avalanche Riders
2x Ball Lightning
1x Battle-Mad Ronin
1x Beacon of Destruction
2x Black Vise
1x Bladetusk Boar
1x Blaze
1x Blistering Firecat
1x Burning Fields
1x Burrowing
3x Burst Lightning
1x Canyon Wildcat
3x Cave Sense
1x Colos Yearling
2x Corrupt Eunuchs
2x Covetous Dragon
1x Dust Corona
1x Fiery Hellhound
1x Fire Elemental
2x Fireball
3x Flame Javelin
1x Flame Slash
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Flamewave Invoker
1x Giant Strength
2x Goblin Berserker
3x Goblin Bully
2x Goblin Chariot
2x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin General
1x Goblin Grenade
1x Goblin King
2x Goblin Mountaineer
1x Goblin Patrol
2x Goblin Raider
1x Goblin Sky Raider
2x Goblin Striker
2x Great Furnace
1x Hell's Thunder
1x Hill Giant
1x Immolation
3x Juggernaut
1x Kher Keep
1x Kyren Glider
1x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Dragon
1x Lightning Talons
1x Magma Jet
1x Maniacal Rage
2x Mass Hysteria
59x Mountain
1x Mountain Bandit
1x Mox Ruby
1x Ornithopter
1x Pardic Collaborator
1x Pardic Dragon
1x Pillage
1x Raging Goblin
1x Rukh Egg
3x Ryusei, the Falling Star
1x Scrap
2x Screaming Fury
2x Shivan Dragon
2x Shivan Hellkite
1x Shock
1x Smash
1x Soulsurge Elemental
2x Storm Entity
1x Tarox Bladewing
1x Unnatural Speed
2x Viashino Outrider
1x Vithian Stinger
1x Volcanic Geyser


BlackRedGreen

1x Avalanche Riders
1x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Black Vise
1x Blightning
1x Blistering Firecat
2x Cateran Overlord
1x Doubling Season
1x Feral Animist
8x Forest
1x Giant Strength
1x Goblin Mountaineer
1x Goblin Patrol
1x Gorger Worm
2x Hellkite Overlord
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Hypnotic Specter
2x Juggernaut
1x Lightning Dragon
1x Liliana Vess
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Loamdragger Giant
9x Mountain
1x Mountain Bandit
2x Predator's Strike
1x Rootwalla
1x Ryusei, the Falling Star
1x Shamblin Remains
1x Shivan Zombie
1x Shock
1x Storm Seeker
1x Sunastian Falconer
8x Swamp
1x Ulamog's Crusher
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Werebear
1x Wild Cantor


SliverQuest

2x Battering Sliver
1x Beastmaster Ascension
2x Black Vise
1x Blistering Firecat
1x Doubling Season
5x Forest
1x Fury Sliver
2x Gaea's Anthem
2x Gemhide Sliver
1x Heart Sliver
2x Hellkite Overlord
1x Horned Sliver
5x Island
3x Juggernaut
2x Lightning Dragon
1x Metallic Sliver
5x Mountain
2x Muscle Sliver
1x Obelisk of Bant
5x Plains
3x Plated Sliver
1x Reflex Sliver
4x Sidewinder Sliver
1x Sinew Sliver
1x Sliver Legion
5x Swamp
2x Synchronus Sliver
1x Talon Sliver
3x Venser's Sliver
3x Virulent Sliver
1x Watcher Sliver
3x Winged Sliver

[friarsol]

Quick followup for you guys. I started a new campaign to see how i ran things. I cranked the difficulty up to Very Hard to see what happened.

After getting treasury, Wall and Pet, I focus on upgrading via cheap cards, selling anything not in my three colors.
Before I even played a game i had a 1/1 Pet, 0/1 Wall, upgraded treasury, and sold off any off-color, or useless cards. In the first 5-10 games or so, I try to upgrade the Pet to 2/2 as soon as I can and when I accumulate enough money get more in treasury.

I'm currently 42-0. Have Max Wolf, no Croc, 0/3 Wall, no Health Potions, Max treasury, 1 Library (just bought).

This deck runs itself, I try to drop a Rancor or Jitte on my pet, and then flood fill some weenies in behind. There's only a handful of kill, but for the most part it doesn't matter. For longer games, I rely on things like Death's Shadow, Ajani, or Debtors Gnell.

Here's my current deck that I do a little tweaking to in between games:

42 Total Cards

13 Creatures
-------------
1x Archon of Justice
1x Black Knight
1x Bottle Gnomes
1x Death's Shadow
1x Deranged Hermit
1x Emeria Angel
1x Hedge Troll
1x Jagwasp Swarm
1x Orochi Leafcaller
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Rootwalla
1x Soltari Emissary
1x Wildheart Invoker

11 Spells
----------
1x Ajani Goldmane
1x Debtors' Knell
1x Echoing Decay
1x Golgari Signet
1x Harrow
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pillory of the Sleepless
1x Rancor
1x Swallowing Plague
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Vindicate

18 Land
--------
5x Forest
5x Plains
1x Savannah
6x Swamp
1x Treetop Village

[Hamletchickencrisis]

There is a quirk with A.I. decks that I have noticed that one can take advantage of if they want. It is more of a loophole really but if you manage to mill an A.I. deck on turn one or turn two with, say, Brain Freeze or Hedron Crab you will get mostly land which really cramps a lot of the early deck's style and even outright destroys some of them. Just a small tip.

With that in mind, if you get Hedron Crab, try to make a go of making a 40 card mill deck. They earn boat-loads of cash early on if you got the cards to make them work.

Another small tip, Psychic Venom. I know it sucks but when you cast it on an A.I. land it shunts it all the way over to the A.I.'s right-hand side playing field which means it tends to tap it out a lot. In fact, I get the A.I.'s killing themselves on Psychic Venom all the time. It is something of a blind-spot for them.

[Chris H.]

There is a quirk with A.I. decks that I have noticed that one can take advantage of if they want. It is more of a loophole really but if you manage to mill an A.I. deck on turn one or turn two with, say, Brain Freeze or Hedron Crab you will get mostly land which really cramps a lot of the early deck's style and even outright destroys some of them. Just a small tip.

`
This happens because the "Stack AI Land" check box is on. With this check box set to on, the computer gets a hand of non-land cards. The top 6 or 7 cards in the library will be lands with the rest of the lands placed at the very end of the library.

It is a simple way to make the computer play a harder game against us but it is very week against the type of mill decks that you mention. Our dev team should consider having this check box set to off. I do not think that having it on is really needed for the quest mode.

[Chris H.]

Quick followup for you guys. I started a new campaign to see how i ran things. I cranked the difficulty up to Very Hard to see what happened.

After getting treasury, Wall and Pet, I focus on upgrading via cheap cards, selling anything not in my three colors.
Before I even played a game i had a 1/1 Pet, 0/1 Wall, upgraded treasury, and sold off any off-color, or useless cards. In the first 5-10 games or so, I try to upgrade the Pet to 2/2 as soon as I can and when I accumulate enough money get more in treasury.

I'm currently 42-0. Have Max Wolf, no Croc, 0/3 Wall, no Health Potions, Max treasury, 1 Library (just bought).

`
I like your strategy, although it can be hard for us to sell off large numbers of unneeded cards. I tend to buy them rather than sell those useless cards.

A wall and wolf pet early on can make a real difference. The early version of my deck also had equips and auras that I would place on my pet. Then I replaced these with a good selection of threat removal type cards. A different style but they both will work.

[Chris H.]

I'm kind of separating things by baseball schedules here... I finished my first "season" 85-77, and I'm currently 5-0 this season. I think I've won at least 30 in a row at this point. The wolf has come in real handy. I got my first Mox (a ruby) as a random rare not too long ago. I'm wondering how often new quests show up, though, since I've beaten the first 3 or 4 and am waiting for the next one to open up. I'm now running my still-evolving sliver deck.

`
Getting the wolf and plant wall and maxing them out will make a big difference. There is a lot of info and buttons displayed on the "Quest Mode" screen. I spent several days trying to move things around to make this window easier for us all to understand. I hope that I succeeded.

I think that the Quests button becomes active at 25 wins. We get to play several quests and then the button will become inactive for a few matches. I think that we have to then win an additional 3 or 4 matches vs the normal opponents before the Quests button becomes active once again.

We continue to add AI decks to Forge. The version on the SVN now has 154 AI decks total, 18 of them are the special Quests type decks.

[Chris H.]

Maybe I just get bored building a deck but I can't seem to make myself play after I get 10 wins. I just love using new cards. I have faced any bosses yet, maybe I can change after 10 wins and change my deck colors in order to keep my interest.

`
Dennis added new features which have kept up my level of interest. Like you, I use to play a quick 10 match quest and then move on.

The card shop and the bazaar gives people a reason to play a long term quest. Same with the special "Boss" decks that we face ... but we have to win at least 25 matches before this button will become active. Some of these Boss decks create a "situation" at the start of a game.

[Hamletchickencrisis]

This happens because the "Stack AI Land" check box is on. With this check box set to on, the computer gets a hand of non-land cards. The top 6 or 7 cards in the library will be lands with the rest of the lands placed at the very end of the library.

It is a simple way to make the computer play a harder game against us but it is very week against the type of mill decks that you mention. Our dev team should consider having this check box set to off. I do not think that having it on is really needed for the quest mode.

Ah, I didn't know it was a setting. Thanks for the information!