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AI attacking and blocking Observations

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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby mrShickadance » 11 Nov 2017, 17:50

AI won't block Bloodthrone Vampire when I have enough creatures make it fatal. AI also doesn't consider effects of cards like Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat in combination with Vicsera Seer/Bloodthrone Vampire/Greater Gargadon that will add fatal damage after combat, though I understand that isn't based on combat alone.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby fmartel » 11 Dec 2017, 22:35

Hello all, in a commander game, an AI had Edifice of Authority and kept my Phyrexian Hydra from attacking. When this AI died, this effect was still present on my creature.

Why ? nobody else had a similar action whithin it's creatures or spells played on the 2 following turns.
https://imghost.io/image/CTlM8
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 27 Dec 2017, 15:57

AI made a rather strange block here. Technically, it was no worse than just chump blocking with a single Samite Healer, I guess. But why not just let the Bog Wraith through and prevent 2 of the damage? What was the AI trying to achieve?
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 27 Dec 2017, 16:03

Following on from my post above... here the AI blocks my Giant Spider with a Samite Healer, heals 1 damage to it, but of course, it still dies.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 28 Dec 2017, 23:43

I've been watching the AI play this game for ages now. Surely, the player on the bottom should use that Pounce to kill the only flying creature of its' opponents' and start flying in for the kill itself.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 02 Jan 2018, 09:45

This seems like a bad choice of blocking for the AI.

Forge - 36 Block.png


I was, of course, ready to play my Crash the Ramparts, but because his block was non lethal, I didn't play it... he didn't play any spells in combat either (or for the rest of my turn).


<Edit>

Interestingly, later in the game, a very similar block happened:

Forge - 36 Block pt 2.png


Once again the AI chose to block the Grazing Whiptail over the Drover of the Mighty, despite the fact that his blocker's 3 power would have killed the Drover.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 02 Jan 2018, 09:46

It seems to me like the AI currently waits to play creatures with the flash ability until after I have performed some kind of game action, in order to catch me out.

Usually, however, it does not wait until late enough, and it's use of the card with flash is premature.

If the AI is going to catch me out, then I'd suggest the best time for him to cast that flash creature is immediately after the 'Declare Attackers' step of combat.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 03 Jan 2018, 01:22

This attack makes no sense to me. The AI threw away it's most powerful creature, a Waker of the Wilds, in a solo attack. Fearing some kind of combat trick, I declined to block with the 3/5 Bellowing Aegisaur, and instead blocked with a 3/3 Legion Conquistador (it had a +1/+1 counter on it), but the AI had nothing up it's sleeve and both creatures died.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby ShivaFang » 03 Jan 2018, 03:23

The AI has a bad habit of AlphaStriking into lifelinkers, leaving itself open to a counter-attack and losing. The AI seems to calculate when it can guarentee that it will kill the opponent with an Alpha Strike (assuming blocks) - I'd like it to also assume lifelink as part of that evaluation.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby ShivaFang » 03 Jan 2018, 03:29

shteev wrote:If the AI is going to catch me out, then I'd suggest the best time for him to cast that flash creature is immediately after the 'Declare Attackers' step of combat.
I would really like to see some kind of AI hints on Flash creatures. Obviously a pseudo-counterspell creature like Spell Stutter Sprite is going to have different timing requirements than a flash-blocker like Avacyn.

There's also a black flash paladin in XLN that gets +1/+1 counters for each creature that died that the AI can never seem to get counters on.. I'd like it to try to cast that at the end of it's turn as that's the most likely time it will be relevant (it will still miss unless it actively checks # of creatures died somehow - but I'd be happy with a generic timing that gives it the most likely chance to succeed)

I run AI vs AI simulations pretty constantly and every time I see that card on the board it never has counters on it - I'm reasonably sure most of my black genetic decks have weeded that card out of the gene pool (except maybe mono-black vampires, where there is a dearth of good options the AI knows how to use properly)
Last edited by ShivaFang on 03 Jan 2018, 15:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby ShivaFang » 03 Jan 2018, 15:01

shteev wrote:This attack makes no sense to me. The AI threw away it's most powerful creature, a Waker of the Wilds, in a solo attack. Fearing some kind of combat trick, I declined to block with the 3/5 Bellowing Aegisaur, and instead blocked with a 3/3 Legion Conquistador (it had a +1/+1 counter on it), but the AI had nothing up it's sleeve and both creatures died.
The AI files have a chance to attack into trade and a chance to bluff attack when it has untapped mana and is more likely to do so when you are tapped out (Which you weren't in this case). These are not things the Default AI is set to do, though - is your preferences set to something other than the Default AI?

The AI really can't evaluate creatures based on their abilities. It typically treats the Waker as a 3/3 vanilla and only sparingly uses its ability (even when there is available mana at the end of turn) I've noticed it also has a bad habit of dumping tons of +1/+1 counters all on one creature and not attacking with it in a stalemate situation rather than animating several lands to outnumber the opponent. (It tends to do that with most abilities that put counters on creatures, though.)

EDIT: Looking at the image you submitted - not sure why you feared a combat trick when the enemy had 0 cards in hand...
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 04 Jan 2018, 10:26

ShivaFang wrote:These are not things the Default AI is set to do, though - is your preferences set to something other than the Default AI?
I didn't realise there was an option for this. I've checked it now, and yes, it's set on Default.

ShivaFang wrote:EDIT: Looking at the image you submitted - not sure why you feared a combat trick when the enemy had 0 cards in hand...
You're absolutely right there, I just didn't check to see how many cards my opponent had in hand.

ShivaFang wrote:The AI really can't evaluate creatures based on their abilities. It typically treats the Waker as a 3/3 vanilla and only sparingly uses its ability
That's true, but even if the AI thought it was a vanilla creature, why would it send it on a suicide mission that achieves nothing? Is it programmed to bluff, at all?

<Edit>
I've just run into a similar suicide attack here:
Forge - Hostage.png


The AI attacked with his 2/3 Hostage Taker into my 3/3 Pterodon Knight. This time, he had some cards in his hand, but I blocked anyway and killed his Hostage Taker (which gave me back the Grazing Whiptail he'd stolen with it, as he hadn't cast it yet).
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 04 Jan 2018, 13:23

Another really suicidal attack from the AI.

On the turn prior to the one shown, AI attacked with Otepec Huntmaster on it's own, before it had tapped any land for mana... I let it through.

On the subsequent turn, shown here, the AI tapped out to cast a Storm Fleet Pyromancer, and then, once again, attacked with the lone Otepec Huntmaster, which, of course, died.

Forge - Huntmaster.png


<edit> Next turn, AI attacked with a lone Raptor Hatchling; I blocked with the Ixalli's Diviner; he cast Dinosaur Stampede. That exchange, at least, made sense.

<edit> Next turn, it played a Sure Strike before combat. It's just being weird today.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 07 Jan 2018, 07:27

shteev wrote:It seems to me like the AI currently waits to play creatures with the flash ability until after I have performed some kind of game action, in order to catch me out.

Usually, however, it does not wait until late enough, and it's use of the card with flash is premature.

If the AI is going to catch me out, then I'd suggest the best time for him to cast that flash creature is immediately after the 'Declare Attackers' step of combat.
Just as an example of what I'm talking about: I've just had the AI reach it's end of turn step, I activated my Quest Mode Plant Token to gain a life, and in response the AI cast a Plumeveil. Props to the AI for trying something tricky, but in practice I'm almost always going to activate a Plant Token at the end of his turn when I'm in Quest Mode.
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Re: AI attacking and blocking Observations

Postby shteev » 08 Jan 2018, 08:29

I attack with Feral Krushok.

The AI has two creatures available to block with: a 3/5 Arashin Cleric, and a 3/4 Aven Tactician.

If the AI double blocked, it'd kill my creature, and lose one of is own.

Instead, it blocks with just the Arashin Cleric, and I finish a creature up.


I notice often that when the AI reaches low life, it goes into 'chump block mode', which is a fair strategy in some cases... but it does seem to miss more profitable blocks, like this one, when it's doing that.
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