Card AI (Improvements) Requests
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Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by Marek14 » 27 Oct 2016, 06:35
Well, mana burn hasn't been in the game for seven years now so it has no downsides.Seravy wrote:Another problem : when the AI blocks with a creature that produces mana when tapped, it taps it and gets mana burned for no reason at all.
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by Seravy » 27 Oct 2016, 12:48
There is an option to enable it in Forge so I would say it is in the "game". I agree it's a low priority problem (not sure how many people play with mana burn enabled?) but eventually when nothing more important is left, it should be fixed.Marek14 wrote:Well, mana burn hasn't been in the game for seven years now so it has no downsides.Seravy wrote:Another problem : when the AI blocks with a creature that produces mana when tapped, it taps it and gets mana burned for no reason at all.
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by Seravy » 28 Oct 2016, 21:10
- AI activated Elvish Piper after declaring no blockers, instead of doing it first and using the 6/6 creature played (Tidal Kraken) to block my Juggernaut.
- AI used a +3/+3 instant on a creature before I declared my blockers instead of after, so I knew I had to block with my 0/1 plant instead of valuable creatures.
Edit : found another problem :
-When the AI reveals a creature card for "Quest from Ula's Temple" it doesn't put a quest counter on the enchantment. This happened in the challenge game of the same name. It revealed like 6 creatures in the match but still had 0 counters on it and never activated the ability to play krakens.
-Recoup : the AI didn't play the targeted sorcery card from the graveyard. Then used flashback next turn and also didn't play it.
(note : everything I post are cards existing AI decks use. I haven't tried making a deck myself for the AI yet.)
- AI used "Squirrel Nest" on a land it tapped to play it, when it had two untapped forests remaining afterwards.
- The "Chain Lightning" challenge doesn't seem to work properly. It plays a turn 1 lightning on my bird pet then...plays no cards at all for the rest of the game aside from mountains. I assume the AI either doesn't know it can be used on players, or assumes it's bad play. (I have 30 life at start)
As is, the AI has 0% chance of winning, I peeked into a files and it plays a deck with only Chain Lightnings in it..which it cannot use on the player.
oh wow it played one when it had 7 in hand finally. And I had 4 untapped mountains so I was able to fire it back twice.
- The Land's Edge deck isn't working properly either. It's playing mountains when it should be discarding all of them for a fast win. And it's doing it one land at a time when the spell allows discarding all 7 in hand at once. I don't know yet but I suspect this means once its hand is empty, newly drawn mountains get played instead of discarded...in other words this AI is also unable to win.
- AI played All Hallow's Eve when it had zero creatures in its graveyard but I had two. Then didn't use its creatures to block the turn before they were coming back from the grave and took 11 combat damage for no reason at all.
- AI used Armageddon when I had 3 creatures and it had none.
- The AI does not consider the effect of Mana Flare when paying for its spells. It still taps 5 lands for a 5 mana creature then the rest gets wasted (and I assume it would take mana burn damage if I hadn't turned that off after the previous similar AI problem)
- AI played Stasis on turn 2, with nothing tapped on my side and no way to pay for the upkeep so it was completely wasted.
- The AI had Circle of Protection : Red in play but consistently tapped out every turn to play weak creatures against my mono-red burn deck so it didn't get to use it even once.
- AI used Unsummon on my Benlish hero with no enchantments, when I had a WIll-o the Wisp in play that had 5 enchantments on it and was 7/6. It was also enchanted by the AI's Earthbind which might have caused it to think it's already neutralized? Even if not flying, a 7/6 regenerating creature with fear is more of a threat than a 1/1 banding.
- I had 4 life remaining. AI plays Fireball with 10 untapped lands. Targets me, my Samite Healer and my Nettling Imp each for 2 damage instead of winning.
- AI tapped a land enchanted by Psychic Venom (take 2 damage if land is tapped) when it had other lands available.
- AI played a second copy of pestilence when it already had one and having two provides no benefit. Tapped the land enchanted by phsychic venom for this, too. Not sure if they can even active the ability on pestilence, haven't seen it happen, though I admit killing my two 2/2s isn't the best deal ever.
I tried to build an ashen ghoul based deck for the AI but...
-AI doesn't recognize ashen ghoul, nether spirit and similar cards to be a good thing to discard...in particular for anvil of bogardan. Not sure if it recognizes Squee goblin Nabob which another deck I built uses. AI is generally dumb at selecting what to keep and discard, does it actually evaluate the cards and keep the one that has the highest priority to get played? Or is it just random? From my observations it seems to discard Corrupt whenever it can. It should at least prioritize cards that have flashback, madness, an ability to come back from the grave, and failing all that, the highest cost CREATURE.
-AI puts dumb things into the graveyard with Entomb. I tried to be fail-safe and only include creatures that should do well in the graveyard, but it decided to bury a Corrupt instead. I think it goes for the highest cost card, but doesn't make sure it's a creature?
-The AI should also equip their Skullclamps to creatures that return from the grave to draw extra cards even if it would "kill" the creature, including Nether Shadow, Ashen Ghoul, Nether Traitor, etc if it doesn't have many cards in hand already (probably should not do it above 5 cards and definitely not if library size is low.)
11/05
-AI destroyed worship in the end combat phase after I didn't take any damage from the attack. If it did it two phases earlier I would have lost.
-I played Heat Ray with X=0 and the AI countered it with Power Sink. (Yea I know people usually don't play spells with X=0 but in this case I had a reason to, there was a Veiled Sentry on their side and I wanted it to be 1/1, drafts can have interesting stuff happening)
-The AI enchanted my 1/1 creature with Parasitic Bond, then killed it with Sicken next turn.
11/06
-The AI recklessly plays all its creatures from its hand despite Noetic Scales being in play, only to return them all to hand next turn and end up in a pretty bad situation.
11/07
-The AI in quest mode who plays and enchantress deck keeps playing enchantments and drawing cards even when it causes it to lose by decking itself out. It went through the last 20 or so cards in its library in two turns and actually lost the game on the second turn before ever getting a chance to attack me with the stuff it played. (Argothian Enchantress and similar cards)
Game two it decked itself out in less than 8 turns without playing a threat, unlocking an achievement
(did anyone actually bothered to TEST the opponents in quest mode? There shouldn't be decks the AI cannot play properly and this isn't the first time...)
11/08
-The AI puts multiple copies of Orcish Mine on the same land when playing the challenge deck in the homelands world that has many copies of that card. These should be played on different lands instead.
11/10
-AI used Ostracize to make me discard Blizzard Elemental, then attacked with its Phyrexian Broodlings enchanted by Brilliant Halo (3/4 total) when I had a 4/4 blocker. After it died, the AI used Exhume to bring it back, giving me a free Blizzard Elemental. Net result : AI spent 2 cards and returned one to hand to give me a free 5/5 flying creature and I lost nothing.
11/11
-AI killed itself 3 times in a draft game by tapping lands when I had Manabarbs in play.
11/12
-AI keeps sacrificing a creature that returns itself to Goblin Bombardment to deal infinite damage, but I have worship in play so I can't die. It should kill creatures in his case. (in this particular case, worship itself because it was animated) At the very least it stopped after a finite number of attempts of failing to deal the last 1 damage, nice. Tho did not do that 2 turns later, or at least it took longer than I was willing to wait before just conceding.
-AI played Call to Arms when I had zero colored permanents in play so it was immediately destroyed. I doubt it was because I was playing a white deck and the AI knew it would help me more than them...
- AI used a +3/+3 instant on a creature before I declared my blockers instead of after, so I knew I had to block with my 0/1 plant instead of valuable creatures.
Edit : found another problem :
-When the AI reveals a creature card for "Quest from Ula's Temple" it doesn't put a quest counter on the enchantment. This happened in the challenge game of the same name. It revealed like 6 creatures in the match but still had 0 counters on it and never activated the ability to play krakens.
-Recoup : the AI didn't play the targeted sorcery card from the graveyard. Then used flashback next turn and also didn't play it.
(note : everything I post are cards existing AI decks use. I haven't tried making a deck myself for the AI yet.)
- AI used "Squirrel Nest" on a land it tapped to play it, when it had two untapped forests remaining afterwards.
- The "Chain Lightning" challenge doesn't seem to work properly. It plays a turn 1 lightning on my bird pet then...plays no cards at all for the rest of the game aside from mountains. I assume the AI either doesn't know it can be used on players, or assumes it's bad play. (I have 30 life at start)
As is, the AI has 0% chance of winning, I peeked into a files and it plays a deck with only Chain Lightnings in it..which it cannot use on the player.
oh wow it played one when it had 7 in hand finally. And I had 4 untapped mountains so I was able to fire it back twice.
- The Land's Edge deck isn't working properly either. It's playing mountains when it should be discarding all of them for a fast win. And it's doing it one land at a time when the spell allows discarding all 7 in hand at once. I don't know yet but I suspect this means once its hand is empty, newly drawn mountains get played instead of discarded...in other words this AI is also unable to win.
- AI played All Hallow's Eve when it had zero creatures in its graveyard but I had two. Then didn't use its creatures to block the turn before they were coming back from the grave and took 11 combat damage for no reason at all.
- AI used Armageddon when I had 3 creatures and it had none.
- The AI does not consider the effect of Mana Flare when paying for its spells. It still taps 5 lands for a 5 mana creature then the rest gets wasted (and I assume it would take mana burn damage if I hadn't turned that off after the previous similar AI problem)
- AI played Stasis on turn 2, with nothing tapped on my side and no way to pay for the upkeep so it was completely wasted.
- The AI had Circle of Protection : Red in play but consistently tapped out every turn to play weak creatures against my mono-red burn deck so it didn't get to use it even once.
- AI used Unsummon on my Benlish hero with no enchantments, when I had a WIll-o the Wisp in play that had 5 enchantments on it and was 7/6. It was also enchanted by the AI's Earthbind which might have caused it to think it's already neutralized? Even if not flying, a 7/6 regenerating creature with fear is more of a threat than a 1/1 banding.
- I had 4 life remaining. AI plays Fireball with 10 untapped lands. Targets me, my Samite Healer and my Nettling Imp each for 2 damage instead of winning.
- AI tapped a land enchanted by Psychic Venom (take 2 damage if land is tapped) when it had other lands available.
- AI played a second copy of pestilence when it already had one and having two provides no benefit. Tapped the land enchanted by phsychic venom for this, too. Not sure if they can even active the ability on pestilence, haven't seen it happen, though I admit killing my two 2/2s isn't the best deal ever.
I tried to build an ashen ghoul based deck for the AI but...
-AI doesn't recognize ashen ghoul, nether spirit and similar cards to be a good thing to discard...in particular for anvil of bogardan. Not sure if it recognizes Squee goblin Nabob which another deck I built uses. AI is generally dumb at selecting what to keep and discard, does it actually evaluate the cards and keep the one that has the highest priority to get played? Or is it just random? From my observations it seems to discard Corrupt whenever it can. It should at least prioritize cards that have flashback, madness, an ability to come back from the grave, and failing all that, the highest cost CREATURE.
-AI puts dumb things into the graveyard with Entomb. I tried to be fail-safe and only include creatures that should do well in the graveyard, but it decided to bury a Corrupt instead. I think it goes for the highest cost card, but doesn't make sure it's a creature?
-The AI should also equip their Skullclamps to creatures that return from the grave to draw extra cards even if it would "kill" the creature, including Nether Shadow, Ashen Ghoul, Nether Traitor, etc if it doesn't have many cards in hand already (probably should not do it above 5 cards and definitely not if library size is low.)
11/05
-AI destroyed worship in the end combat phase after I didn't take any damage from the attack. If it did it two phases earlier I would have lost.
-I played Heat Ray with X=0 and the AI countered it with Power Sink. (Yea I know people usually don't play spells with X=0 but in this case I had a reason to, there was a Veiled Sentry on their side and I wanted it to be 1/1, drafts can have interesting stuff happening)
-The AI enchanted my 1/1 creature with Parasitic Bond, then killed it with Sicken next turn.
11/06
-The AI recklessly plays all its creatures from its hand despite Noetic Scales being in play, only to return them all to hand next turn and end up in a pretty bad situation.
11/07
-The AI in quest mode who plays and enchantress deck keeps playing enchantments and drawing cards even when it causes it to lose by decking itself out. It went through the last 20 or so cards in its library in two turns and actually lost the game on the second turn before ever getting a chance to attack me with the stuff it played. (Argothian Enchantress and similar cards)
Game two it decked itself out in less than 8 turns without playing a threat, unlocking an achievement
(did anyone actually bothered to TEST the opponents in quest mode? There shouldn't be decks the AI cannot play properly and this isn't the first time...)
11/08
-The AI puts multiple copies of Orcish Mine on the same land when playing the challenge deck in the homelands world that has many copies of that card. These should be played on different lands instead.
11/10
-AI used Ostracize to make me discard Blizzard Elemental, then attacked with its Phyrexian Broodlings enchanted by Brilliant Halo (3/4 total) when I had a 4/4 blocker. After it died, the AI used Exhume to bring it back, giving me a free Blizzard Elemental. Net result : AI spent 2 cards and returned one to hand to give me a free 5/5 flying creature and I lost nothing.
11/11
-AI killed itself 3 times in a draft game by tapping lands when I had Manabarbs in play.
11/12
-AI keeps sacrificing a creature that returns itself to Goblin Bombardment to deal infinite damage, but I have worship in play so I can't die. It should kill creatures in his case. (in this particular case, worship itself because it was animated) At the very least it stopped after a finite number of attempts of failing to deal the last 1 damage, nice. Tho did not do that 2 turns later, or at least it took longer than I was willing to wait before just conceding.
-AI played Call to Arms when I had zero colored permanents in play so it was immediately destroyed. I doubt it was because I was playing a white deck and the AI knew it would help me more than them...
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by vinnie » 20 Nov 2016, 12:07
when ai play the lich, and takes damage, one of his first decisions as a permanent to be sacrificed is the same lich, so he lose the game instantly.
I think he should sacrifice the lich as a last choice.
P.s. I rarely see responses in this thread, in that of feature request and in that of the last beta release (unlike the snapshot bug reports in the development corner). It is only to avoid unnecessary post or these threads are taken with little consideration?
I think he should sacrifice the lich as a last choice.
P.s. I rarely see responses in this thread, in that of feature request and in that of the last beta release (unlike the snapshot bug reports in the development corner). It is only to avoid unnecessary post or these threads are taken with little consideration?
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by Seravy » 22 Nov 2016, 01:26
AI targeted me with Insidious Bookworms to discard a card and I had none in hand, while the other player (it is a 3 player game) is holding 4 cards.
Fabricate
by ShivaFang » 28 Nov 2016, 03:55
The AI currently refuses to cast cards with Fabricate. It keeps them in hand and ignores them. I'm not sure - maybe it can't navigate past the choice to get counters or tokens.
These cards don't seem to be flagged as AIDoNotUse. I checked in the Workshop mode - these cards have neither AI or ? in the AI column. Looking at the other cards in this column AI seems to mean AIDoNotUse and ? seems to mean not to put them in randomly generated decks. Since the Fabricate cards have this column blank I presume this means the AI I supposed to be able to play them - but it won't.
These cards don't seem to be flagged as AIDoNotUse. I checked in the Workshop mode - these cards have neither AI or ? in the AI column. Looking at the other cards in this column AI seems to mean AIDoNotUse and ? seems to mean not to put them in randomly generated decks. Since the Fabricate cards have this column blank I presume this means the AI I supposed to be able to play them - but it won't.
Re: Fabricate
by Hanmac » 28 Nov 2016, 07:15
What is your Forge Version or snapshot Revision?ShivaFang wrote:The AI currently refuses to cast cards with Fabricate. It keeps them in hand and ignores them. I'm not sure - maybe it can't navigate past the choice to get counters or tokens.
These cards don't seem to be flagged as AIDoNotUse. I checked in the Workshop mode - these cards have neither AI or ? in the AI column. Looking at the other cards in this column AI seems to mean AIDoNotUse and ? seems to mean not to put them in randomly generated decks. Since the Fabricate cards have this column blank I presume this means the AI I supposed to be able to play them - but it won't.
I thought I did the logic for fabricate to have the AI choose the right option depending what is better in that moment. But you said that the AI will not cast them at all, i will check out later what might be wrong.
Does that happen for all of them or only for some of them?
Re: Fabricate
by ShivaFang » 28 Nov 2016, 14:21
I don't know where to find that information. It's whatever revision happens when I select "VCS->Update Project" in IntelliJ.Hanmac wrote:What is your Forge Version or snapshot Revision?
It seems to be all of them. I've been running a genetic algorithm to build decks and have been running AI vs AI battles at 10x speed, to determine the deck's fitness. Thus, I've been seeing a large scope of games. Since I'm in observer mode I can watch their hands. I thought it weird that the computer would keep some creatures in hand and not cast them and over time I noticed a pattern - the uncast cards all had Fabricate. I have never seen a creature with Fabricate on the battlefield.
EDIT: The 'Format' under "Subversion Working Copies information" says 1.8. Does that help?
Re: Fabricate
by Hanmac » 28 Nov 2016, 14:47
Oh so you are using snapshot/trunk.ShivaFang wrote:I don't know where to find that information. It's whatever revision happens when I select "VCS->Update Project" in IntelliJ.Hanmac wrote:What is your Forge Version or snapshot Revision?
It seems to be all of them. I've been running a genetic algorithm to build decks and have been running AI vs AI battles at 10x speed, to determine the deck's fitness. Thus, I've been seeing a large scope of games. Since I'm in observer mode I can watch their hands. I thought it weird that the computer would keep some creatures in hand and not cast them and over time I noticed a pattern - the uncast cards all had Fabricate. I have never seen a creature with Fabricate on the battlefield.
EDIT: The 'Format' under "Subversion Working Copies information" says 1.8. Does that help?
Does it with latest trunk still happen?
I check it out later when I be Home.
Hm I am interested to see such speed checking, is there a way to post it?
Re: Fabricate
by ShivaFang » 28 Nov 2016, 15:17
It happens with the latest trunk. I updated it two days ago and again yesterday. I updated it this morning but it was the same as yesterday.
Here is the channel, but I've only uploaded one video so far (working on that today) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ajp_ ... 64Mi7zU9IA
I'm planning on putting updates for it on YouTube. There's a large interest in Genetic Algorithms on YouTube lately so I figure it might interest a few people.Hanmac wrote:Hm I am interested to see such speed checking, is there a way to post it?
Here is the channel, but I've only uploaded one video so far (working on that today) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ajp_ ... 64Mi7zU9IA
Re: Fabricate
by Marek14 » 28 Nov 2016, 15:49
The main problem, I think, is that even with genetic algorithms, lots of cards are not used well by AI. Wouldn't it give better results (although it would be a bit duller) if you started with something like Portal, a generally simpler set?ShivaFang wrote:It happens with the latest trunk. I updated it two days ago and again yesterday. I updated it this morning but it was the same as yesterday.I'm planning on putting updates for it on YouTube. There's a large interest in Genetic Algorithms on YouTube lately so I figure it might interest a few people.Hanmac wrote:Hm I am interested to see such speed checking, is there a way to post it?
Here is the channel, but I've only uploaded one video so far (working on that today) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5Ajp_ ... 64Mi7zU9IA
Re: Fabricate
by ShivaFang » 28 Nov 2016, 16:07
The cards that are not used well by the AI would be weeded out of the decks. There are a lot of cards that the AI doesn't use well but uses well enough that it's still a good card. Verderus Gearhulk, for example, wins a lot of games even though the AI doesn't use it optimally.Marek14 wrote:The main problem, I think, is that even with genetic algorithms, lots of cards are not used well by AI. Wouldn't it give better results (although it would be a bit duller) if you started with something like Portal, a generally simpler set?
Aethersquall Ancient is another prime example. A flying beater that produces 3 energy every turn works just fine for the mono blue decks, even if the AI refuses to use the board wipe ability.
Right now, for example, Fabricate cards are effectively dead cards and decks without them tend to perform better.
By the way - I just uploaded a video that shows the Fabricate issue;
https://youtu.be/gaJ84Jh_xIs?t=9m49s You'll see he's got Peema Outrider and Cultivator of Blades in hand but doesn't cast it, while he does cast every other creature he draws.
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by Hanmac » 28 Nov 2016, 18:02
there was something wrong with the ETBTriggers, the AI does check if it would benefit from it.
i also updated it to newer SpellAbility Format.
then i did notice that the trigger did make problems with when doTriggerAINoCost does call canPlayAI in the base implementation. (need to check it out more) and then it did cause getRestrictions().checkZoneRestrictions to fail. (because the card is still in hand)
fixed all with r32607 for now.
i also updated it to newer SpellAbility Format.
then i did notice that the trigger did make problems with when doTriggerAINoCost does call canPlayAI in the base implementation. (need to check it out more) and then it did cause getRestrictions().checkZoneRestrictions to fail. (because the card is still in hand)
fixed all with r32607 for now.
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by ShivaFang » 29 Nov 2016, 00:19
Confirm Fabricate fixed. I updated my SVC when I got home and noticed the ChooseGenericEffectAi file got updated (which I peeked at and saw it was one that had the Fabricate code).
Been watching matches and I caught a glimpse of a Weaponcraft Enthusiast on the board.
Thank you so much.
Been watching matches and I caught a glimpse of a Weaponcraft Enthusiast on the board.
Thank you so much.
Re: Card AI (Improvements) Requests
by BloodReyvyn » 29 Nov 2016, 05:28
If you have Aluren in play, the AI will play cards from its graveyard. If they have a creature that can sacrifice itself (ie - Arcbound Ravager) in play, they will stalemate the game since they will sac the creature to itself, then play it for free from the grave... forever... lol
EDIT: Also, if you have Opalescence in play and use Heliod, God of the Sun 's ability to put a token into play, the token dies immediately because the game thinks it's a global enchantment. (I assume. Not sure if it is supposed to work that way since Creature Enchantments didn't really exist before Theros, except maybe Lucent Liminid.) Do Enchantment Creatures count as Global Enchantments?
EDIT2: I noticed after my last edit that errata reads completely differently... nevermind, lol
EDIT: Also, if you have Opalescence in play and use Heliod, God of the Sun 's ability to put a token into play, the token dies immediately because the game thinks it's a global enchantment. (I assume. Not sure if it is supposed to work that way since Creature Enchantments didn't really exist before Theros, except maybe Lucent Liminid.) Do Enchantment Creatures count as Global Enchantments?
EDIT2: I noticed after my last edit that errata reads completely differently... nevermind, lol
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