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GandoTheBard wrote:How is it mathematically possible to go 3-3 in 4 matches. Each match consists of 2-3 games but only 1 match. a 3-3 record indicates 3 won matches and 3 lost matches. I dont see how you could have that happen and call it 4 matches.

You are correct, I meant 3-3 in your first six matches.

Chris H. wrote:

DennisBergkamp wrote:also Reach of Branches, Baru, Fist of Krosa and Angelic Chorus are probably buggy). I'd like to try a different approach, and I'd like to see this tested.

I just checked and we don't have Angelic Chorus yet, although we all would just love to see this card.

Did you instead mean to refer to the Angelic Blessing spell?

Ahh, I think the code's written for it... but I guess nothing in cards.txt exists? I'm not sure if the code would work though.

Ahh, I think the code's written for it... but I guess nothing in cards.txt exists? I'm not sure if the code would work though.

No, nothing in cards.txt other than Angelic Blessing and Angelic Wall.

I think the code's written for it...

I just added the data for Angelic Chorus to cards.txt and the spell works.

Rares may have decided after coding this card that it was too powerful for Sealed Deck and then removed the data from cards.txt.

Unfortunately, Angelic Chorus is very buggy I think that's why rares might have never added in the text in cards.txt (or whoever started coding it).

One thing I know for certain: a -1/3 creature does NOT add life to an opponent if it hits him unblocked. I had a Guilt Feeder with the enchantment out that gives all creatures -1/-1 and my opponent gained a life before the guiltfeeder did its life loss effect which by the way should happen as a triggered affect as soon as blockers have been declared before player abilites/spells go on the stack, instead of like now where it goes after all other damage has been assigned. This might seem picky but I don't think it is. Timing is everything in magic.

Something quite insane just happened. Playing a green and black deck in the VERY HARD quest mode (which evidently means getting the worst possible card pool to start...I mean worst cards ever plus a few good ones to make you feel you arent completely hosed) and I played a Llanowar Elf (yay elves) Opponent played a Bad Moon I played a Rathi Intimidator (best black card I have) and my elf inexplicably died. I guess he was so afraid of the intimidator he JUMPED into the graveyard??

Wrath of Bad moon? I just had the same thing happen again...6 guys on the table...opponent played a Bad Moon...I play a 1/1 guy they all go to the graveyard...VERY VERY BAD BUG....please fix asap or remove Bad Moon from the Quest Decks. A note to all questors...skip the simple black deck until this is fixed for your own sanity's sake.

Apparently Titanic Ultimatum does not clean up properly subtracting huge amounts from power and adding to toughness the next turn after it is played (I only found this out because by a freak miracle (or just bad luck) I drew only a few creatures out of my 40 card deck to play it on...thankfully I had 90 lands to cast it with...ok I exagerate slightly but seriously the shuffling of the decks is atrocious. Anyway back to the bug: it seems to subtract the full power of the turn before from the creature AFTER the creature returns to normal and adds that to the toughness. Oh and the deficit is permanent.

Ugh, it looks like I messed up Bad Moon (same thing with Crusade, undoubtedly).

Sorry about that, here's a fix (should also fix Titanic Ultimatum), just replace your run-forge.jar file with this one.

EDIT: looks like I named this thing fix.rar.rar Feel free to rename it to fix.rar...

Playing the latest beta with the bugfix added.
Questmode. (not sure if that has anything to do with it but I mention it anyway)
Problably more a rules issue than a bug.
AI uses the elf singleton deck and has a Winnower Patrol in play.
I play Lignify on the Winnower Patrol to make it a 04 treefolk with no abilities.
To me, that also means the KINSHIP should no longer be used. But kinship is still checked. Since an elf was revealed and Winnower Patrol is now a treefolk, it should not get a counter but it did.
I feel like the Lignify should have removed the KINSHIP from the card.
Am I right or wrong here? (one of those rules thingies that I am not an expert in. )

Edit: I found this in regards to Lignify effecting the creature:
10/1/2007 Lignify causes the enchanted creature to lose all abilities it had at the time it became enchanted. Any abilities granted to the creature after Lignify came into play will work normally.

To me that means exit for KINSHIP the moment Lignify enchants the creature.
At the very least, the creature loses whatever creature type it had and becomes a TREEFOLK, so KINSHIP should not trigger on an elf being revealed. (which it did in the game)
Unless, I have my wires crossed again.

Mr.Chaos wrote:Playing the latest beta with the bugfix added.
Questmode. (not sure if that has anything to do with it but I mention it anyway)
AI uses the elf singleton deck and has a Winnower Patrol in play.
I play Lignify on the Winnower Patrol to make it a 04 treefolk with no abilities.
To me, that also means the KINSHIP should no longer be used. But kinship is still checked. Since an elf was revealed and Winnower Patrol is now a treefolk, it got no counter but I feel like the Lignify should have removed the KINSHIP from the card.
Am I right or wrong here? (one of those rules thingies that I am not an expert in. )

You are right and it is a bug that I reported several updates back. Im sorry I haven't kept up with the bug tracking data so that the developers could see what bugs are still outstanding. :/

I know about the Lignify not removing abilities bug. I've attempted to fix it in the past, but failed Tricky to fix... not sure how to do it correctly.
One way to fix it might be through some nasty hack, where we rename the creature (maybe add a space at the end or something ) and then reset the name once it's bounced/destroyed, but that's something I'd like to avoid.
Lignify might also be buggy when cast on creatures like Nightmare / Korlash / Tarmogoyf. At least it should correctly calculate P/T when cast on other creatures now (this was not the case a bunch of versions ago).

What needs more fixing I think is the fact that creature enchantments / auras (whatever they're called) are currently basically sorceries, they just hit the graveyard after being cast and can't be removed by aiming a Disenchant at them. But again, this is very tricky to implement, because the GUI code would have to be updated to show these enchantments preferably behind the creature (or other permanent). I'm not sure how to do this either, GUI code in java is just so damn confusing

Thanks to Gando and Dennis for explaining the Lignify problem.

I noticed that the AI still likes to use pump effects and regeneration effects in useless ways.
Example: Compy has Aven Flock in play and at the start of each of its turns, will pump the flock until all white mana is spent.
Regeneration is used less frequent, but still used when there is no need for it.

Since these bugs have been present in quite a few updates, I take it they are a realy nasty thing to fix.
Still, I hope a fix can be found as it really messes with the mana for the AI amking some games really easy to win once a pumpable creature hits the table on the AI's side.

Ok, time to go play Magic with real cards now. My weekly gathering of magic-minded idiots starts in 20 minutes.

Dennis Re: the GUI....can you simply add a shadowed layer with the label of the card showing? That way on mouse over you can display the enchantment/aura on the sidebar.

Concerning the lignify bug, I think part of the problem is that you are using the actual cards rather than copies of the cards. If something changes in the copy that doesnt effect the real thing but it does affect what is in play. And when you reset the Copy you can do so from the Original without worrying about it being incorrect. This is what I was talking about before with the difference between cards and permanents.

You play Card X --->Permanent X which is a copy of Card X is created and put into play...(Card X is in limbo because you aren't actually ever using it except to get information from it (it is read only)) Permanent X gets pumped by whatever cards are in play, loses said pumping as apropriate, etc... then you can attach/unattach enchantments and equipments to said permanent because you dont have to worry about wrecking it. When some thing causes Permanent X to leave play the Card X it represents does the leaving instead and Permanent X is just erased. Sort of unhooking it from the system.

A typical permanent might look as follows datawise:

Parent Card: Merfolk Looter
Type: Merfolk
Subtype: (whatever subtype is on the card, I forget lol)
CMC: 2
MC: 1U
BaseP: 1
BaseT: 1
Abilitys: (loot)

With a Glorious Anthem in play it also has the following data:
PermBuff: +1P, +1T.
TotalP: 2
TotalT: 2

With a Lignify:
Attached Card: Lignify
TypeChangedTo: Treefolk
BasePChangedTo: 0
BaseTChangedTo: 4
AbilityChangedTo: null
TotalP: 1
TotalT: 5


(If that makes any sense) I realize that implementing concept to actual code isn't necessarily as easy as composing a post in english but the logic should be similar.