Legal concerns

[frwololo]

I know this must have been brought lots of times already, but I have questions regarding copyrights.

It's obvious that all icons, mana symbols, Magic logos, and the card graphics are copyrighted material from WotC.
My own app is getting lots of attention recently owing to a recent release, and I'm planning to remove all graphics from the next version.

I know that some programmers working on similar pieces of software have received legal letters/emails from WotC, so I'm wondering : is this only about the graphics ? To what extent is Magic stuff copyrighted ? How about card names, ability texts, rules ?

On top of my mind, MTGForge, Firemox, Deckbot, Arcane all at some point have stopped/paused development due to legal reasons. I know that firemox and MTGForge are still doing well, so what was the solution for you guys ? Remove the graphics to stay clear ? Avoid some specific hosting solutions such as sourceforge ?

[Snacko]

I'm not sure how long the patents last (from googling it looks like 20 years so it's still valid) but the whole mechanics / zone placement / card information placement has a patent filled.
You can review it at google http://www.google.com/patents?id=ixoMAAAAEBAJ

However those should are only accountable in the US(your application would be perfectly illegal ) and unless a similar patent was filled in EU / elsewhere it would be legal to use those. Your best bet would be asking a layer for a legal advice if you want to be on a safe side.

Most of the MTG software programmers operate in the grey zone, and unless you make enough buzz for wizards to notice/care about they wont send you a C&D and other legal letters.

[frwololo]

Thanks Snacko. I have no lawyer friend and I am not sure how I can get legal advice for an affordable cost, but you're probably right when you say it's the best thing to do.
Thanks for the patent link also. It seems this patent is being processed in EU too (http://register1.epoline.org/espacenet/ ... Y=ep&LG=en) , but I'm not sure I read it correctly, maybe it's pending... It says "application withdrawn")...

Then I cross fingers and will try to stay in the grey area.

I'd still like to hear from the other developers though, if they're around here

[BlackMamba]

Personally, for the moment, I keep my code/binaries for myself Anyway, I'm doing this for my own pleasure right now and it's hardly something I could distribute at this point. When (if?) it comes to that though, it's something that bothers me and I'd like to hear people's experience with this as well.

[mtgrares]

Well MTG Forge's legal trouble started when I applied to a job at Wizards. (All I got was a lousy phone interview.) About 2 months after that MTG Forge's sourceforge.net site was frozen. I did put up another version of MTG Forge on sourceforge.net that has all the card named, that was a pain. Currently MTG Forge is just flying under the radar. Even though MTG Forge's original sourceforge.net site was frozen and closed down, my blog which was clearly mentioned didn't get bothered at all. So I don't have much advice other than always keep a copy on your local machine in case something happens. That isn't much help but I didn't get a cease and desist e-mail from Wizards and it did discourage me for awhile. Now I'm working on MTG Forge 2.0, yeah.

[frwololo]

Well, got a C&D email today

[Huggybaby]

You have a home here. You have the rank of AI Programmer now too, congratulations.

[meep.o.matic]

Pardon my noobishness, but what is wrong with that, and what is C&D?

[Snacko]

Wikipedia is your friend C&D

[meep.o.matic]

Oh He was working on Wagic right? But isn't that an open source program? I read somewhere that the best way for a program not to recive a legal warning was to place the open source for downloading =/

[Snacko]

Yes, you could rehost the source somewhere else (the best would be somewhere where legal actions are hard / impossible to impose like Russia or China). Then you say you comply with the C&D letter () and that "someone" else is hosting/working with the software as it's open source and you can't control who does something with it.

However if they gather evidence that it's really the same person they can sue you for using their intellectual property (would work in US). There's one but, it seems they don't have any patents in EU so here they just harass people with C&D letters as they know most people don't have any lawyer backup and don't want the case to go to the court (probably would be possible to win the case unless they have some kind of patent in EU).

[meep.o.matic]

That's ****ed up... There shouldn't be any problem with creating MTG software (except for sale). The programers that do that just want to make the game more accessible for the gamers, besides they might create potential new buyers (take me for example, I learned to play with MWS and then decided to risk and play real MTG. Must have bought about 4 to 5 booster boxes these past 2 years...) and MTG has cimented it's position as the top TCG. Still, Business is business, and they already have MTG Online. I understand that they want to eliminate all other choices, but it's still not fair, since people waste time and sometimes money to "expand" the game's platforms.
Frwolo brought MTG to PSP. I dunno if he was the first but that's an admirable thing, wich I think he put his heart onto and then wizards smashed it with a simple letter.
It's just not fair.

[Huggybaby]

WOTC should make a way to play their game in a way and on the platforms that their users want. But like the music business, they sue their customers instead, so screw them. All the projects we work on end up making them money, that has been proven over and over again by honest testimonials.

A lot of people don't like their online subscription model, but since they refuse to support any offline versions, maybe because they think they wouldn't be able to squeeze every available penny, they reap what they sow.

[meep.o.matic]

Unfortunatly, for them costumer's not always right.

[frwololo]

You have a home here. You have the rank of AI Programmer now too, congratulations.

Thanks, for both the home and the cool rank