MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
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MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by nantuko84 » 13 Jan 2011, 14:14
Hi,
Need your help with mtg rules regarding last known information.
I'm confused about two lines in the rules:
Second part
As it is returned to hidden zone (hand), I will gain 3 lifes, right?
And if a card would say "Destroy target creature. You gain life equal to its power", so it goes to graveyard (public zone), this time I will gain only 2 lifes, not 3, right?
Need your help with mtg rules regarding last known information.
I'm confused about two lines in the rules:
AndIf an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied.
Let say I have a card "Put a -1\-1 counter on target creature. You gain life equal to its power" that targets 2\2. Will I gain 1 life as it becomes 1\1 when first part of the effect is applied? Or should I gain 2 lifes as it counts the object state before effect was applied?If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself or a target that's become illegal, the effect uses the current information of that object if it's in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it's no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object's last known information.
Second part
I have Glorious Anthem and 2\2 creature that is 3\3 because of anthem. I play "Return target card to its owner hands. You gain life equal to its power.".if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object's last known information.
As it is returned to hidden zone (hand), I will gain 3 lifes, right?
And if a card would say "Destroy target creature. You gain life equal to its power", so it goes to graveyard (public zone), this time I will gain only 2 lifes, not 3, right?
Mage\MagicWars blog: http://mwars.blogspot.com/
Re: MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by silly freak » 14 Jan 2011, 08:33
these are two separate effects of the same spell, so you gain only one life (determined when the second part is applied)"Put a -1\-1 counter on target creature. You gain life equal to its power."
in both other cases, you gain 3 life:
the expected zone is the battlefield, because the target was on the battlefield. thus LKI is used.if it's in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it's no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object's last known information.
I hope I'm right with this; confirmation is appreciated!
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where's the "trust me, that will work!" switch for the compiler?
Laterna Magica - blog, forum, project, 2010/09/06 release!
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Re: MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by Incantus » 16 Jan 2011, 03:53
As was explained to me on the rules channel, each sentence should be considered a separate effect (so they happen consecutively). If they weren't separate sentences (ie "put a -1\-1 counter on target creature and gain life equal to its power") then it would be considered one effect and happen simultaneously (so you would gain 2 life).silly freak wrote:these are two separate effects of the same spell, so you gain only one life (determined when the second part is applied)"Put a -1\-1 counter on target creature. You gain life equal to its power."
Yes, this is correct. In both cases, the life gain refers to the targeted creature on the battlefield, and since it is no longer on the battlefield you must use LKI to access the power it had on the battlefield (so you gain 3 life in both cases).silly freak wrote:in both other cases, you gain 3 life:the expected zone is the battlefield, because the target was on the battlefield. thus LKI is used.if it's in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it's no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object's last known information.
I hope I'm right with this; confirmation is appreciated!
Re: MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by MageKing17 » 16 Jan 2011, 12:45
Sorry, but that's wrong. Whether or not they're part of the same sentence is irrelevant; they always happen consecutively. The only way for them to happen simultaneously is for the word "simultaneously" to be used (as in "Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature and simultaneously gain life equal to its power"), but that's a very silly effect.Incantus wrote:As was explained to me on the rules channel, each sentence should be considered a separate effect (so they happen consecutively). If they weren't separate sentences (ie "put a -1\-1 counter on target creature and gain life equal to its power") then it would be considered one effect and happen simultaneously (so you would gain 2 life).silly freak wrote:these are two separate effects of the same spell, so you gain only one life (determined when the second part is applied)"Put a -1\-1 counter on target creature. You gain life equal to its power."
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Re: MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by nantuko84 » 16 Jan 2011, 15:45
so the question that is still opened. Is there any difference in effects applied with and without "and". are they both happen consecutively?
Mage\MagicWars blog: http://mwars.blogspot.com/
Re: MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by MageKing17 » 20 Jan 2011, 06:16
99% of the time, there is no difference and they always happen consecutively.nantuko84 wrote:so the question that is still opened. Is there any difference in effects applied with and without "and". are they both happen consecutively?
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Re: MTG Rules - Last known information - need help
by nantuko84 » 20 Jan 2011, 11:48
ok!
and thanks, guys, for your help! was really helpful.
and thanks, guys, for your help! was really helpful.
Mage\MagicWars blog: http://mwars.blogspot.com/
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