8 oldschool quest worlds, 252 opponents, 56 challenges!

[Xyx]

Portal III had only 106 cards, so that's three decks only.

I'm not restricted to singleton decks, so I can work with that. Sounds comparable to some of the smaller worlds. After removing all the cards that the AI can't handle, I got down to these numbers:

Arabian Nights: 62
Antiquities: 67
The Dark: 99
Fallen Empires: 69
Homelands: 97

Arabian Nights barely has enough cards to make one deck per color, but there are still some fun gimmicks like Drop of Honey and Rukh Egg. For some reason, Mirage/Visions, with its impressive 401 valid cards, isn't offering all that much more in terms of interesting gimmicks.

[timmermac]

There's the flanking mechanic to work with. There's getting out the Viashivan and Spirit of the Night.

[Xyx]

Yes, I got those, and the hilarious (when it comes together) combo of Tombstone Stairwell + Grim Feast + Anvil of Bogardan (if the AI doesn't discard the other pieces), and a Malignant Growth deck that's full of cards that don't have homes elsewhere but work together quite well.

The flanking knights, unfortunately, nearly all have activated abilities that the AI doesn't understand. They're still OKish as "french vanilla" 2/2 flankers but it doesn't make the AI look great.

I would have loved to build the famous Bloom Drain decks (Cadaverous Bloom into Prosperity into Drain Life), but the AI won't cast the Drain Life. I guess that is just going to be something that players will get to do to the AI.

[Marek14]

Many years ago, when Weatherlight came out, I had an idea for a deck with Tolarian Serpent and Gaea's Blessing to negate its drawback

As for Weatherlight expansion itself, it should be part of Mirage/Visions, not of Rath cycle, since it's still on Dominaria. And the elements of Weatherlight saga appear in Mirage/Visions as well anyway, with things like Sisay's Ring.

Another question it: what to do about Time Spiral legends from past? For example, should Kaervek the Merciless, in Time Spiral block, get a deck that is composed of Mirage block cards, plus himself?

For Mirage block, what might be interesting themes?

Guilds - three-colored decks with more prominent central color, to showcase the Guildmage cycle. Each could also showcase Mirage and Visions charms in its main color.
A mostly singleton deck based on Bazaar of Wonders or Eye of Singularity (or both)
ProsBloom
Something to showcase the dragon cycle (Pearl Dragon, Mist Dragon, Catacomb Dragon, Volcanic Dragon, Canopy Dragon). Probably with Zirilan of the Claw
Celestial Dawn
Chaosphere
Chimeras
Poison with Crypt Cobra, Sabertooth Cobra and Suq'Ata Assassin
Cursed Totem
Fallow Wurm + Harvest Wurm
Flash
Floodgate, granting Floodgate flying to Wrath the opponent's board
Graveyard filling plus Forbidden Crypt
Goblin Bomb
Goblins, based on Goblin Recruiter/Goblin Soothsayer
Griffins, based on Griffin Canyon/Zuberi, Golden Feather
Kookus deck with his Keepers
Natural Order, using something like Viashivan Dragon to conjure
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Pegasus deck with Sacred Mesa
Knights with Zhalfirin Commander

Mirage block is also maybe the first set with a true set of story-relevant legends (Ice Age block has only a few), and each of them should have its own deck showcasing it

[Xyx]

Many years ago, when Weatherlight came out, I had an idea for a deck with Tolarian Serpent and Gaea's Blessing to negate its drawback

Gaea's Blessing only triggers when your opponent mills it, so you'd have to hardcast all four blessings every turn to keep that up. Still, drawing five good cards per turn is nice (even if you're spending 4GGGG.)

As for Weatherlight expansion itself, it should be part of Mirage/Visions, not of Rath cycle, since it's still on Dominaria. And the elements of Weatherlight saga appear in Mirage/Visions as well anyway, with things like Sisay's Ring.

Mirage/Visions were developed as "The Menagerie" and later split into two sets because it was too big for one set. It revolves around the Mirage Wars (the conflict between the western Jamuraan nations of Zhalfir, Femeref and Suq'Ata and the wizards Kaervek and Jolrael.) It was initially designed with generic fantasy flavor (probably the Domains) and not seasoned with african flavor until after the design was completed.

Weatherlight was developed by an entirely different team. It revolves around the Weatherlight crew (most of which are from the Domains, the Tolarian Academy and Terisiare), and does not refer to the Mirage Wars at all. It was hastily tied to Mirage/Visions by including Sisay (whose quote appears on a handful of cards in Mirage/Visions) and a handful of cards in Weatherlight that mention people or places in western Jamuraa.

In short, these sets, while technically sharing a block, have less in common than many other sets that don't even share a block.

what to do about Time Spiral legends from past? For example, should Kaervek the Merciless, in Time Spiral block, get a deck that is composed of Mirage block cards, plus himself?

That's very tempting and thematic but it's a can of worms. Kaervek the Merciless is a modern-bordered card and stands out like a sore thumb in older sets. If this were done with any kind of consistency I'd have to do things like put Serra Angel in Homelands, Whirling Dervish in Arabian Nights, Lovisa Coldeyes in Ice Age, Mishra, Artificer Prodigy in Antiquities, and basically make an entire world just for Urza himself. It's the same problem as the "Plane Constructed" thing I mentioned earlier.

Guilds - three-colored decks with more prominent central color, to showcase the Guildmage cycle. Each could also showcase Mirage and Visions charms in its main color.

They're on the list, but the AI never activates the blue guildmage abilities. It also misplays Ivory Charm, and Sapphire Charm is horribly bugged. I also made a five-color deck with all the guilds (and a couple other guild related cards like Mungungu.)

A mostly singleton deck based on Bazaar of Wonders or Eye of Singularity (or both)

Already got one! The problem with "or both" is that they're both World Enchantments that kill each other and that ruins the whole strategy. So they have to be separate decks.

Bazaar of Wonders is very weak, though. Eye of Singularity will stop second copies (and potentially even blow up several permanents), but Bazaar of Wonders exiles the graveyard and so is often only effective against third and fourth copies. I guess R&D wasn't thinking straight at the time, since Bazaar of Wonders would have been "OK" at best if it hadn't come pre-nerfed.

ProsBloom

I wish! The whole Squandered Resources -> Cadaverous Bloom -> Prosperity thing could theoretically come together, but the AI just plain refuses to ever cast Drain Life. I'll see if there's even a chance that the AI will cast Kaervek's Torch instead.

Something to showcase the dragon cycle (Pearl Dragon, Mist Dragon, Catacomb Dragon, Volcanic Dragon, Canopy Dragon). Probably with Zirilan of the Claw

Already done, but unfortunately not with Zirilan of the Claw. The AI never activates him.

Celestial Dawn

I considered some sort of "5-color white" deck but it's not very interesting. Celestial Dawn is basically just color fixing. Hall of Gemstone is funnier, since it hoses gold cards. Hmm... maybe I could put both in one deck. It would be somewhat silly, but I can live with that.

Chaosphere

"Deck without flying" is not much of a theme. Chaosphere just goes into any random deck that has no flyers.

Chimeras

Already done. Pretty bad, though. The AI will happily sac a 4/4 chimera to boost a 2/2 one. I tried a Tombstone Stairwell deck with chimeras, but instead of half-assing one theme it "quarter-asses" two themes.

Poison with Crypt Cobra, Sabertooth Cobra and Suq'Ata Assassin

Already on the list!

Cursed Totem

Already part of a hilarious Barbed Foliage/Dream Tides/Malignant Growth deck.

Fallow Wurm + Harvest Wurm

Once I get to Weatherlight.

Flash

As in the "restricted in Vintage" card Flash? There's not much to flash in, unfortunately.

Floodgate, granting Floodgate flying to Wrath the opponent's board

Unfortunately, Chariot of the Sun is never activated and Sapphire Charm is totally bugged. That leaves Harmattan Efreet and Soar. I'll try.

Graveyard filling plus Forbidden Crypt

Good idea! Will try!

Goblin Bomb

In Weatherlight.

Goblins, based on Goblin Recruiter/Goblin Soothsayer

The AI can't handle decks containing more than one Goblin Recruiter. It'll put all the other recruiters on top. It is also extremely conservative with Goblin Soothsayer.

Griffins, based on Griffin Canyon/Zuberi, Golden Feather

Already done!

Kookus deck with his Keepers

Kookus is with the goblins.

Natural Order, using something like Viashivan Dragon to conjure

Already done!

Phyrexian Dreadnought

Horrendously misplayed by the AI. It'll cast the dreadnought before it has 12 power and then sac its entire board (including, of course, the dreadnought itself.) I don't think there's anything I can do with that.

Pegasus deck with Sacred Mesa

The AI will cast it on turn 3 and then not activate it on the next upkeep, so it only works if it is drawn when the AI already has at least 5 lands (in which case the AI will religiously make tokens.) I'm still putting it into a deck (preferably one with a lot of 3- and 4-drops), but it's just one cool card with no real synergies.

Knights with Zhalfirin Commander

The AI never activates Zhalfirin Commander.

Mirage block is also maybe the first set with a true set of story-relevant legends (Ice Age block has only a few), and each of them should have its own deck showcasing it

I built a decent Kaervek deck, and Teferi won't be a problem, but Jolrael and Mangara are strangely only mentioned on a handful of cards. I'll have to pad the Jolrael deck with the Viashino stuff (including Hivis of the Scale, the Viashivan Dragon and its drakes, and maybe some bonus dragons) for Jolrael.

Telim'Tor and Sidar Jabari are in the flanking deck. Rashida Scalebane may or may not have to share with Asmira, Holy Avenger. Purraj of Urborg doesn't have many cards, Shauku, Endbringer is in the Uuserk Swamp deck (home of the tomb city of Aku, where she resides.) Spirit of the Night has its own deck. Not much is known about Taniwha, but it might be funny with Sands of Time and Equipoise.

Hakim Loreweaver would be really cool but the AI doesn't use his ability at all.

Ice Age has quite a few characters if you don't just count actual Legendary Creature cards. I built decks for Jarkeld, Darien, Halvor, Zur, Gustha, Varchild, Gerda, Jaya, four decks for Lim-Dûl (from the perspectives of Leshrac, Tevesh-Szat and Chaeska), and decks prominently featuring the teachings of Arcum, Sorine, Kaysa, Freyalise, Jaeuhl, Lovisa and Kolbjorn.

[Marek14]

Many years ago, when Weatherlight came out, I had an idea for a deck with Tolarian Serpent and Gaea's Blessing to negate its drawback

Gaea's Blessing only triggers when your opponent mills it, so you'd have to hardcast all four blessings every turn to keep that up. Still, drawing five good cards per turn is nice (even if you're spending 4GGGG.)

Where did you hear THAT? Gaea's Blessing triggers when it goes from library to graveyard -- it doesn't matter how.

As for Weatherlight expansion itself, it should be part of Mirage/Visions, not of Rath cycle, since it's still on Dominaria. And the elements of Weatherlight saga appear in Mirage/Visions as well anyway, with things like Sisay's Ring.

Mirage/Visions were developed as "The Menagerie" and later split into two sets because it was too big for one set. It revolves around the Mirage Wars (the conflict between the western Jamuraan nations of Zhalfir, Femeref and Suq'Ata and the wizards Kaervek and Jolrael.) It was initially designed with generic fantasy flavor (probably the Domains) and not seasoned with african flavor until after the design was completed.

Weatherlight was developed by an entirely different team. It revolves around the Weatherlight crew (most of which are from the Domains, the Tolarian Academy and Terisiare), and does not refer to the Mirage Wars at all. It was hastily tied to Mirage/Visions by including Sisay (whose quote appears on a handful of cards in Mirage/Visions) and a handful of cards in Weatherlight that mention people or places in western Jamuraa.

In short, these sets, while technically sharing a block, have less in common than many other sets that don't even share a block.

On the other hand, the Rath cycle is all about Rath and Weatherlight, which is distinctly Dominarian, doesn't fit there either.

what to do about Time Spiral legends from past? For example, should Kaervek the Merciless, in Time Spiral block, get a deck that is composed of Mirage block cards, plus himself?

That's very tempting and thematic but it's a can of worms. Kaervek the Merciless is a modern-bordered card and stands out like a sore thumb in older sets. If this were done with any kind of consistency I'd have to do things like put Serra Angel in Homelands, Whirling Dervish in Arabian Nights, Lovisa Coldeyes in Ice Age, Mishra, Artificer Prodigy in Antiquities, and basically make an entire world just for Urza himself. It's the same problem as the "Plane Constructed" thing I mentioned earlier.

Oh, I didn't mean to put this deck HERE. I meant to make it for Time Spiral world when you get there.

Guilds - three-colored decks with more prominent central color, to showcase the Guildmage cycle. Each could also showcase Mirage and Visions charms in its main color.

They're on the list, but the AI never activates the blue guildmage abilities. It also misplays Ivory Charm, and Sapphire Charm is horribly bugged. I also made a five-color deck with all the guilds (and a couple other guild related cards like Mungungu.)

A mostly singleton deck based on Bazaar of Wonders or Eye of Singularity (or both)

Already got one! The problem with "or both" is that they're both World Enchantments that kill each other and that ruins the whole strategy. So they have to be separate decks.

Bazaar of Wonders is very weak, though. Eye of Singularity will stop second copies (and potentially even blow up several permanents), but Bazaar of Wonders exiles the graveyard and so is often only effective against third and fourth copies. I guess R&D wasn't thinking straight at the time, since Bazaar of Wonders would have been "OK" at best if it hadn't come pre-nerfed.

ProsBloom

I wish! The whole Squandered Resources -> Cadaverous Bloom -> Prosperity thing could theoretically come together, but the AI just plain refuses to ever cast Drain Life. I'll see if there's even a chance that the AI will cast Kaervek's Torch instead.

Mirage block is also maybe the first set with a true set of story-relevant legends (Ice Age block has only a few), and each of them should have its own deck showcasing it

I built a decent Kaervek deck, and Teferi won't be a problem, but Jolrael and Mangara are strangely only mentioned on a handful of cards. I'll have to pad the Jolrael deck with the Viashino stuff (including Hivis of the Scale, the Viashivan Dragon and its drakes, and maybe some bonus dragons) for Jolrael.

Well, Jolrael will get another chance in Prophecy, and maybe in Time Spiral.

Telim'Tor and Sidar Jabari are in the flanking deck. Rashida Scalebane may or may not have to share with Asmira, Holy Avenger. Purraj of Urborg doesn't have many cards, Shauku, Endbringer is in the Uuserk Swamp deck (home of the tomb city of Aku, where she resides.) Spirit of the Night has its own deck. Not much is known about Taniwha, but it might be funny with Sands of Time and Equipoise.

Hakim Loreweaver would be really cool but the AI doesn't use his ability at all.

Ice Age has quite a few characters if you don't just count actual Legendary Creature cards. I built decks for Jarkeld, Darien, Halvor, Zur, Gustha, Varchild, Gerda, Jaya, four decks for Lim-Dûl (from the perspectives of Leshrac, Tevesh-Szat and Chaeska), and decks prominently featuring the teachings of Arcum, Sorine, Kaysa, Freyalise, Jaeuhl, Lovisa and Kolbjorn.

Yes, I am mostly interested in the decks with their own legendary creatures

[Xyx]

Where did you hear THAT? Gaea's Blessing triggers when it goes from library to graveyard -- it doesn't matter how.

You're right! I don't know what I was thinking of.

On the other hand, the Rath cycle is all about Rath and Weatherlight, which is distinctly Dominarian, doesn't fit there either.

That leaves the third option: separate world.

I am mostly interested in the decks with their own legendary creatures

I was able to build around Adun Oakenshield, Ramses Overdark, Sol'kanar the Swamp King, Angus Mackenzie, Halfdane, Gwendlyn Di Corci, Bartel Runeaxe and Jacques le Vert somewhat better than I initially suspected. Their decks aren't laser focused, being limited to Legends cards, but all their cards are tied to their abilities. Except for Gwendlyn Di Corci, which the AI unfortunately never activates. Her deck is instead thematically centered on "girl power".

[dingbat1]

what to do about Time Spiral legends from past? For example, should Kaervek the Merciless, in Time Spiral block, get a deck that is composed of Mirage block cards, plus himself?

Well, the story of Time Spiral basically has the legends from the past mysteriously reappearing in the present - they're ripped from the past without their armies, and so, it only makes sense to include the time-shifted cards from the past, but no other cards.
(and trying to build the time-shifted cards into the decks is quite an interesting challenge)

[Fizanko]

Amazing , can't comment on deck balance vs the difficulties levels as i'm completely clueless in term of old MtG eras cards and deckbuilding, but it sure is great fun to have those worlds and allow then people to explore the MtG history in other ways than only constructed duels.

Thanks for all the work on those quest worlds.

[serrasmurf]

I guess "Place: Time" would work, where Place is the location of the story (a country, a continent or the entire plane) and Time is the period in time....

I like what you did here and the names you came up with. I still prefer plane constructed with bigger cardpools above block constructed but I respect your preference, specially for everything on Dominaria.
I did check the timelines of my pet planes. I was curious to how much story time elapsed during the 3 sets and how much time between the blocks. It all seems to be quite continuous. The story though the 6 sets of both these planes have quite a continuous flow.

[dingbat1]

I guess "Place: Time" would work, where Place is the location of the story (a country, a continent or the entire plane) and Time is the period in time....

I like what you did here and the names you came up with. I still prefer plane constructed with bigger cardpools above block constructed but I respect your preference, specially for everything on Dominaria.
I did check the timelines of my pet planes. I was curious to how much story time elapsed during the 3 sets and how much time between the blocks. It all seems to be quite continuous. The story though the 6 sets of both these planes have quite a continuous flow.

I think that works better for newer sets/blocks, like Zendikar and Innistrad, because by now the overall shape of the game is fairly consistent, whereas with older blocks (especially Ice Age / Coldsnap) the designs can be so different that they don't work well together (or look the same).

Beside that, sets in a block are playtested with each other, so the cards interact well with each other, whereas sets from different eras can have cards that don't work well together. (this is especially notable with older sets, where the powerswings from block to block were much bigger, and the number of "broken" cards were bigger)

[Xyx]

I have an update:

• A new world! Jamuraa: The Mirage Wars. No less than 71 opponents and 18 challenges await you in this storied corner of Jamuraa where wizards and nations battle for supremacy. (As noted earlier, I left out the Weatherlight expansion because it has nothing to do with this conflict.)
• Worlds given prettier names, as discussed.
• I added a placeholder opponent that marks when you have reached the "end" of a world. It's the only Very Hard opponent. When it shows up, you have officially "completed" the world.
• 7 new opponents for the Beta and Ice Age worlds.

I'd also like to rename some of the superlong Ice Age decks.

What should I do? Should I just upload a zip file with all of the worlds as they should be? I could try SVN but I suspect I'd need a bit of coaching there.

Anyone who updates while they are on a quest runs a risk of crashing Forge on startup from there on out. Especially if they were on a challenge that is no longer available, but maybe also if an opponent got renamed. Forge does not handle such things gracefully. I think you're fine if you travel to Dominaria before updating, though. That clears your challenges. It also generates a new batch of opponents when you travel back.

[Agetian]

For starters, feel free to upload the .zip archive here
Nice to see progress in the quest worlds, by the way! Keep it up!

- Agetian

[Xyx]

Welcome to Jamuraa! (Again, sort of.)



Poor Jamuraa. As if ordinary war between the nations of Zhalfir, Femeref and Suq'Ata wasn't enough, now there's also a war between powerful wizards! The overly ambitious Kaervek has imprisoned the peaceful Mangara in amber and tricked the reclusive Jolrael into supporting his conquest of Jamuraa with her beasts and dragons. Meanwhile, Teferi has vanished into the flow of time but manages to send visions to help the people of Jamuraa.

Mirage and Visions were originally developed as a single set known as "The Menagerie". It was split into two when it became too large. It is the first set that was designed with Limited in mind, and has a much lower incidence of terrible cards than the earlier worlds. The expansion Weatherlight is not part of this world because it is unrelated to the Mirage Wars storyline.

This is the biggest world thus far! It is also the second world that had a Block Constructed Pro Tour, so expect stiff competition!

The zip file contains:

• Updated versions of all the quest worlds. For most worlds, this just means I added the quest completion marker. LEB and ICE/ALL got a few new decks, there was some renaming in ICE/ALL... I think that's all.
• The new MIR/VIS world.
• An updated worlds.txt with prettier world names.

As always, happy questing, and let me know what you think!

[Agetian]

Thanks for your effort, Xyx! I'll look into testing and integrating the latest pack soon!

- Agetian