8 oldschool quest worlds, 252 opponents, 56 challenges!

[Xyx]

Defeating all of the opponents and/or completing all of the challenges would work. Defeating all of the opponents at least once isn't too hard, but some of the challenges are (almost?) impossible without a highly specialized deck, so that should keep you busy.

Forge could, devs willing, issue a world specific achievement once you've defeated all of the things at a certain difficulty level. Like, "Duel Master (Common)" for defeating all the Easy opponents, or "Challenge Master (Mythic)" for defeating the Very Hard challenges. That way you're done once you have either or both Mythic achievements.

(I did not grade any duels "Very Hard", though. Just some of the nastier challenges. The duel opponents play by the same rules as the player, but the challenge opponents certainly don't. I recommend Kenan Sarmahl ("Shandalar") in LEB and "Storm World" in LEG as examples.)

[Xyx]

Uh-oh... update 1.5.53 adds Firestorm Phoenix, Ghostly Flame, Giant Oyster, Nova Pentacle and Seraph. Some of those are quite relevant. I better update, but... how should I do that? I'll have to edit some decks and possibly also rename some decks. I know that if a deck is renamed and it happened to be in your quest menu, Forge will throw nasty errors on startup.

[Agetian]

Uh-oh... update 1.5.53 adds Firestorm Phoenix, Ghostly Flame, Giant Oyster, Nova Pentacle and Seraph. Some of those are quite relevant. I better update, but... how should I do that? I'll have to edit some decks and possibly also rename some decks. I know that if a deck is renamed and it happened to be in your quest menu, Forge will throw nasty errors on startup.

You can post the edited decks here (sadly, I'm leaving today for about 10 days, but once I come back I'll be able to push the changes upstream for you unless you have access yourself and can do it on your own ). Of course, there might be errors if changes are deep enough like that, but then again, if worst comes to worst we can always add a note to the README file specifying that you'll need to start a new quest if you're upgrading from an older version of Forge and you're encountering errors - it's not optimal, but if it has to be done, then it has to be done.

- Agetian

[dingbat1]

I don't know if it helps, but, here are a few quest worlds created by other users that I found. This includes worlds for Kamigawa, Lorwyn, Innistrad, Theros and some old classics
(I'd give credit where credit is due, but, I don't even remember where I found them)

[Xyx]

You can post the edited decks here

Alright, thanks! I'll see if my SVN-fu is up to snuff, too.

here are a few quest worlds created by other users that I found.

Cool, I'll check those out. Might be something useful there. If you ever remember who or what, let me know so we can give credit where needed.

EDIT: Ah, the numbered ones (up to and including Theros) are mine. Kamigawa, Innistrad and Lorwyn are not.

[mastroego]

Innistrad is by Fizanko, IIRC.
Shouldn't be hard to track the authors down BTW, the worlds were posted in a dedicated thread if I'm not mistaken.

[serrasmurf]

Hi Xyx,
I played a quest in the antiquities world.
That was a weird and cool experience!
I like what you made of it.
Some remarks:
- it needs to played without realwold cardprices (as you stated elsewhere). Downside is that it then becomes quite easy to get your 4 Mishra's Workshop..
- As it is a small world it doesn't take long to get the strategy and deck right
When I travel in Forge it doesn't feel like traveling to other planes anymore:

[Xyx]

- it needs to played without realwold cardprices (as you stated elsewhere). Downside is that it then becomes quite easy to get your 4 Mishra's Workshop..

Basic Forest is the best land in Antiquities.

When I travel in Forge it doesn't feel like traveling to other planes anymore:

I know. It's not pretty. I tried to get fancy but it became a mess. There's two Dominarias and three Terisiares in there, so pretty names are not possible. At least this way it's clear what's what.

[dingbat1]

When I travel in Forge it doesn't feel like traveling to other planes anymore:

I know. It's not pretty. I tried to get fancy but it became a mess. There's two Dominarias and three Terisiares in there, so pretty names are not possible. At least this way it's clear what's what.

[/quote]But it's very easy to mod that and change the names to something more preferable

Open Forge/Res/Quest/World/Worlds.text
Then change e.g. Name:1994-11 Fallen Empires|Dir:1994-11 Fallen Empires|Sets:FEM to Name:Sarpadia|Dir:1994-11 Fallen Empires|Sets:FEM

For bonus points, change it to Name:Sarpadia|Dir:Sarpadia|Sets:FEM and then rename the "1994-11 Fallen Empires" folder to "Sarpadia"

[Xyx]

That would work for Arabian Nights, Fallen Empires and Homelands... but what about Limited Edition Beta, Legends, the three Terisiare worlds and Mirage/Visions?

[dingbat1]

But it's very easy to mod that and change the names to something more preferable

Open Forge/Res/Quest/World/Worlds.text
Then change e.g. Name:1994-11 Fallen Empires|Dir:1994-11 Fallen Empires|Sets:FEM to Name:Sarpadia|Dir:1994-11 Fallen Empires|Sets:FEM

For bonus points, change it to Name:Sarpadia|Dir:Sarpadia|Sets:FEM and then rename the "1994-11 Fallen Empires" folder to "Sarpadia"

That would work for Arabian Nights, Fallen Empires and Homelands... but what about Limited Edition Beta, Legends, the three Terisiare worlds and Mirage/Visions?

I'm assuming you're talking about "world" names rather than on renaming itself (which is what I was addressing, and can be modded to suit one's personal taste).

I'm pressed for time, but here's a quick suggestion:

Unlimited: Dominaria
Arabian Nights: Rabiah
Antiquities: Terisiare I: The Brothers' War
Legends:*
The Dark: Terisiare II: Descent Into Darkness (or The Sylex Blast)
Fallen Empires: Sarpadia [alternatively Dominaria III: Sarpadia]
Ice Age: Terisiare III: The Ice Age
[if separate - Alliances: Terisiare IV: The Great Thaw]
Homelands: Ulgrotha
Mirage/Visions: Jamuura


*If I recall correctly, Legends is a prequel, taking place before the events of Unlimited. In that case it could be Dominaria I: Land of Legends, with Unlimited being Dominaria II: The Golden Age (not sure if you want to change the order like that)

[Xyx]

That looks nice. I really would prefer a prettier naming convention, but I want to make absolutely sure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot later down the line. I guess "Place: Time" would work, where Place is the location of the story (a country, a continent or the entire plane) and Time is the period in time (if needed, since many worlds will not be revisited.) Seems elegant enough.

Let's see where this would take us (in chronological order):

Limited Edition Beta: "The Domains: The Golden Age of Magic"
It's Dominaria, but with the (I think) sole exception of Shivan Dragon (which probably just flew in), all cards are set in the Domains.

Arabian Nights: "Rabiah"
Alternatively "Rabiah: The Thousand-Fold Refraction", but I don't think we'll go there again.

Antiquities: "Terisiare: The Brothers' War"
This one's easy, at least.

Legends: "Dominaria: Legends"
It's all over Dominaria (not just the Domains.) Alternatively "Dominaria: Time of Legends", or even "Dominaria: The Times of Dragons" (which is an actual official era, although Legends is probably all over history.)

The Dark: "Terisiare: The Dark"
Easy.

Fallen Empires: "Sarpadia"
Alternatively "Sarpadia: Fall of the Empires", but I doubt we'll go there again.

Ice Age/Alliances: "Terisiare: Ice Age"
Easy.

Homelands: "Homelands"
The Homelands is the bit of land on the plane(t?) of Ulgrotha that hasn't been completely sucked dry of life-sustaining mana. Alternatively "The Homelands", "Ulgrotha: The Homelands", "Ulgrotha: Homelands" or even just "Ulgrotha". Unlikely we'll return there.

Mirage/Visions: "Jamuraa: The Mirage Wars"
Not to be mistaken with the other "Jamuraa", which is not limited to just the Mirage Wars (or necessarily even Jamuraa, I dare say.) This confusion is actually a strike against prettier names since I would prefer to keep "my" worlds distinguishable from the ones that I consider "not pure".

POR: "Portal"
There's no official story for Portal. The presence of Merfolk of the Pearl Trident suggests it's in the Domains (which would make it "The Domains: The Something"--probably "The Domains: Portal"), but that is the only clue I could find.

Weatherlight: "Dominaria: Weatherlight"
Start of the Weatherlight Saga, so alternatively "Dominaria: The Weatherlight Saga Begins", but that's a bit long for my tastes. Technically in the same block as MIR/VIS, but all over Dominaria and thematically unrelated to the Mirage Wars.

Tempest/Stronghold/Exodus: "Rath"
I assume it's not called "The Rath Cycle" for nothing. We'll see Rath again later, but it'll be (spoiler alert) as a planar overlay on Dominaria.

Portal: The Second Age: "Caliman"
Unlike the original Portal, this one has an actual storyline and location, that being the Dominarian island of Caliman. I don't know what "The Second Age" refers to (other than this being Portal 2), but it probably doesn't matter since I don't think we'll go there again.

Unglued/Unhinged/Undone: Nope!
It's not even in Forge (and Undone is not even... done.)

Urza's Saga/Legacy/Destiny: "Urza's Saga"
If I had to name a place, it'd be "The Multiverse" since the story takes place on Dominaria, Phyrexia and Serra's Realm at the very least.

Portal Three Kingdoms: "The Three Kingdoms"
I don't even know what plane this is supposed to be.

Mercadian Masques: "Mercadia"
Another world I don't think we'll revisit.

Nemesis: ???
I am not very familiar with this part of the story but I've a feeling we're not in Mercadia anymore. Something about Rath (but only a handful of cards), Dominaria and Crovax. However, there's a lot of tribal rebel and mercenary stuff to go with all the Mercadian Masques stuff (like Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero.) This is a mess. What do?

Prophecy: "Jamuraa: The Keldon Invasion"
Northern Jamuraa, right before (spoiler alert) the Phyrexian Invasion. Is this supposed to go with Mercadia? It doesn't seem to form a cohesive part of the block, either in story or mechanics. It takes place on a different plane, and although there are some rebel and mercenary cards, those do not have a strong tribal component.

Invasion/Planeshift/Apocalypse: "Dominaria: Invasion"
Seems a no-brainer. "Dominaria: The Phyrexian Invasion" is a bit long.

7th Edition: "Dominaria: Crusade"?
7th Edition has 100% alternate art, as well as something of a story and theme (something about the Northern/Southern/Eastern Paladins fighting.) Such a huge departure of the core set line is deserving of a world. Might need a better name, though.

Odyssey/Torment/Judgment: "Otaria: Odyssey"
Something about Kamahl vs Cabal or something, though this does not seem to be a "named" conflict. Seems self-contained enough.

Onslaught/Legions/Scourge: "Otaria: Onslaught"
Apparently a continuation of the Odyssey storyline (mostly the same actors), except it's now about Ixidor, Akroma and Phage (again not a "named" conflict), and has little mechanical relevance. Instead it has morphs. Lots of morphs. Let them have a world of their own.

Mirrodin/Darksteel/Fifth Dawn: "Mirrodin"
Alternatively "Mirrodin: Fifth Dawn", to further distinguish it from various other Mirrodins (including the current "Mirrodin" world and the (presumably) upcoming Scars block world.) We already seem to have a decent Mirrodin world (I haven't checked if it showcases all the feasible cards), so this is not a high priority regardless. I'm not a huge fan of huge worlds, though. The whole "Plane Constructed" certainly has its charms, but since only the best 100 or so cards have a reasonable shot of winding up in a serious player's deck regardless of world size, why deprive people the chance to see an extra 100 cards in action? To me, that's the whole purpose of these worlds.

Champions/Betrayers/Saviors of Kamigawa: "Kamigawa"
Total no-brainer

Ravnica: City of Guilds/Guildpact/Dissention: "Ravnica: Dissention"
Again, it needs to be distinguishable from the "Ravnica" world as well as the later Return To. Like I explained for Mirrodin, Plane Constructed is good but Block Constructed is better.

Coldsnap: "Terisiare: Coldsnap"
Separate from Ice Age for reasons listed earlier.

Time Spiral/Planar Chaos/Future Sight: "Dominaria: Time Spiral"
Seems obvious enough.

Lorwyn/Morningtide: "Lorwyn"
Not to be polluted with cards from Shadowmoor. The two do not coexist (except for Oona, Queen of the Fae.)

Shadowmoor/Eventide: "Shadowmoor"
Not to be polluted with cards from Lorwyn.

Shards of Alara/Conflux/Alara Reborn: "Alara"
Seems easy enough, although possibly Shards of Alara should have a world of its own, seeing as the shards are separate. Perhaps there should even be a world for each shard? A cursory glance suggests that it is indeed possible to sort the entire set into five tiny different mini-worlds. Might be fun!

Zendikar/Worldwake: "Zendikar: Worldwake"
Traps and treasures... but no eldrazi!

Rise of the Eldrazi: "Zendikar: Rise of the Eldrazi"
It's as if naming gets easier for modern sets. This is a stand-alone set and I wish to preserve that distinction. It's set in the same world as the previous two sets and there was some minor hinting at the eldrazi, but there the similarity ends. It has no mechanical relevance at all, with landfall and allies having been displaced by eldrazi and levelers.

Scars of Mirrodin/Mirrodin Besieged/New Phyrexia: "New Phyrexia"?
Let's face it, it's pretty unlikely that Mirrodin will recover.

Innistrad/Dark Ascension: "Innistrad: Dark Ascension"
It's as if these worlds name themselves.

Avacyn Restored: "Innistrad: Avacyn Restored"
Another stand-alone block, with distinct mechanics and flavor.

Return to Ravnica/Gatecrash/Dragon's Maze: "Ravnica: Dragon's Maze"
Although the first two sets were drafted as stand-alone sets, they take place in the same time and Dragon's Maze ties them together.

Theros/Born of the Gods/Journey into Nyx: "Theros"
Easy.

Conspiracy: "Fiora"?
I'm not really into this because Conspiracy not only has the flavorful and distinct Fiora part, it also has a ton of unrelated reprints. Plus... Forge has no conspiracies.

Khans of Tarkir: "Tarkir: Khans"
Tricky one, this. None of the three sets should coexist with the others. The relationship between the sets is like a V-shape, with Khans and Dragons at the top ends and Fate Reforged at the bottom tip, 1000 years apart.

Fate Reforged: "Tarkir: Fate Reforged"
The logical result.

Dragons of Tarkir: "Tarkir: Dragons"
The logical conclusion.

Magic: Origins: "Magic: Origins"
Either that or "The Multiverse: Origins", seeing as how it covers a whopping ten different planes. Origins has sufficiently "stand-alone" flavor to warrant a world of its own. Seems fitting that Magic's first, middle and last core sets are made into quest worlds.

Battle for Zendikar/Oath of the Gatewatch: Zendikar: The Battle for Zendikar
Easy. It's almost as if Wizards had this in mind when they switched to two-set blocks.

Shadows over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon: "Innistrad: Eldritch Moon"
Also easy.

Kaladesh/Aether Revolt: presumably "Kaladesh: Aether Revolt"
Going with more than just "Kaladesh" here since it's likely that we'll see it again some day.

Phew! What do you think?

[dingbat1]

I like it. For the most part I think you're spot on, and see things the same way I do.

I wish I still had copies, but my computer literally died. Last year, I gave myself a challenge to go through every block and create a super-singleton challenge: use every card only once, in as many decks as appropriate, and each deck thematic (e.g. in Theros a deck dedicated to each god). I covered about 3/4 of the blocks (including every block from Kamigawa onward). From that experience, I can say that there's clearly a shift, where all the blocks from Ravnika on are refined, they're all pretty good, and fairly similar in terms of construction, fun, and lore, while the blocks up to Onslaught have more issues. (Mirrodin and Kamigawa were when MTG was transforming, so that while the modern game is beginning to take shape, there still are issues). Doesn't mean the older sets aren't fun, just that they're not as polished. that ties in with the trouble of sorting these early sets out.

Ice Age should only be paired with Alliances. Coldsnap really doesn't gel well, and Homelands doesn't fit at all.

Mirage&Visions were designed to be the same set, whereas Weatherlight is just added on; if anything, Weatherlight should be part of the Rath Cycle, but that'll probably make the set too big

Mercadian Masks & Nemesis I can't really help you, because I never played those sets. I believe these two can be tied together, though someone more familiar with the sets should chime in.

Tarkir block can be either three separate worlds, or it could be (1) Khans & Fate Reforged and (2) Fate Reforged & Dragons of Tarkir. I'm pretty sure WoC intended it to work that way, but from an adventure/story perspective, it makes more sense to have all three separate.

On a separate note, I don't know if Portal 1-3 necessarily need separate entries, I tend to play with them lumped together. From a gameplay perspective, it's a better block than most people realize, even though it looks like it isn't.


*I also had the intention of taking the "new" cards from Magic 2010-2015 and turning those into a block (681 cards; about the same size as most blocks). This was something I intended to do after going through all the other blocks, and I don't think I've ever even looked at those cards. (I likewise intended to work with planechase, commander, conspiracy, vanguard, archenemy, etc. after finishing everything else). After my computer died I just didn't have it in me to start all over again; additionally, life happened, and I don't have the time needed to sort out all the cars in a block, figure out proper themes (some are obvious, but for, say, Return to Ravnika, after 1 for each guild, you still need another 8 decks to use up all the cards), assign a number of cards to particular sets, and then figure out how to use the leftover cards to create balance, then playtesting to ensure every deck is somewhat playable, well, that's just a crapload of work. Per block.
Maybe I'll start up again soon.

[Xyx]

I wish I still had copies, but my computer literally died.

I dread the inevitable day that this will happen to me as well.

there's clearly a shift, where all the blocks from Ravnika on are refined, they're all pretty good, and fairly similar in terms of construction, fun, and lore, while the blocks up to Onslaught have more issues. (Mirrodin and Kamigawa were when MTG was transforming, so that while the modern game is beginning to take shape, there still are issues). Doesn't mean the older sets aren't fun, just that they're not as polished. that ties in with the trouble of sorting these early sets out.

There's also a difference from Mirage onward. Ice Age is very poorly designed for Limited (or in general, one might say), whereas Mirage has more creatures and far fewer really bad cards (but unfortunately also very few build-arounds--I'm having real trouble there.)

if anything, Weatherlight should be part of the Rath Cycle, but that'll probably make the set too big

I was thinking the same thing.

Tarkir block can be either three separate worlds, or it could be (1) Khans & Fate Reforged and (2) Fate Reforged & Dragons of Tarkir. I'm pretty sure WoC intended it to work that way, but from an adventure/story perspective, it makes more sense to have all three separate.

Again, that is what I thought as well. Fate Reforged was obviously designed to work with the other two sets, but it is set a thousand years ago.

I don't know if Portal 1-3 necessarily need separate entries

They have distinct feel and zero overlap other than being "Portal".

I also had the intention of taking the "new" cards from Magic 2010-2015 and turning those into a block (681 cards; about the same size as most blocks). This was something I intended to do after going through all the other blocks, and I don't think I've ever even looked at those cards. (I likewise intended to work with planechase, commander, conspiracy, vanguard, archenemy, etc. after finishing everything else).

Yeah, I also wondered what to do with all the non-reprints from M10 upwards. On the one hand it'd be a waste not to use them somewhere, on the other hand I don't think core sets make for particularly interesting worlds. Maybe, if I ever get as far as Magic: Origins, I can see how I feel about "M10 world".

I don't have the time needed to sort out all the cars in a block, figure out proper themes (some are obvious, but for, say, Return to Ravnika, after 1 for each guild, you still need another 8 decks to use up all the cards), assign a number of cards to particular sets, and then figure out how to use the leftover cards to create balance, then playtesting to ensure every deck is somewhat playable, well, that's just a crapload of work. Per block.

Yup. Time I have, at least.

[dingbat1]

I did Portal in Manalink, so the three sets combined had only 390 cards. Portal III had only 106 cards, so that's three decks only. If I hadn't combined them, I'd be stuck.
My other reason for doing them as a block was horsemanship; without combining the three blocks there wasn't enough meat for the mechanic.