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New quest decks

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 17 Jul 2017, 17:16

@tojammot: Thanks a lot, these look like cool decks! Did you test them ingame vs. other decks to try to determine which tiers they would belong to?

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Re: New quest decks

Postby tojammot » 18 Jul 2017, 04:57

Yes, at least my way of testing it. So far they're all meant to be Hard opponents though Ultron v2 is slightly incoherent in terms of becoming threatening (like Spike Spiegel, which is similarly janky) so I could probably knock that down with some card swaps. Meanwhile Marisa Kirisame could be Very Hard, depending on how early Aluren hits the field and how many of the top cards in the library are creature cards. I'm also considering splitting off George Washington into pure Battle Cry/Battalion, and a deck with Military Intelligence and cards like Jhessian Infiltrator.

I'm really open to suggestions right now as I feel a bit rusty.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 18 Jul 2017, 07:51

Nice!
I can look into integrating them. I'm not very good with tweaks though, so hopefully someone else can help with that... Would you like to provide avatars for these opponents as well?

And btw, would you like to try anything with HOU-specific mechanics since the set was recently released?

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Seravy » 18 Jul 2017, 10:41

I'm also planning to make a whole bunch of new decks but am too busy doing other stuff at the moment so this is stalled. I'm also going to need to improve the AI massively as a lot of nice decks are currently unplayable for it.
I'm planning to keep all of them in a separate world though, concept being my favorite anime characters playing decks I actually used in real life (or would have, if the cards existed/were available to me then), and the world rewarding cards from my favorite sets, but I'm pretty sure a lot of them will be a nice addition to the main world as well.

Feel free to browse through and use whichever you like. (or wait for the completed world and add that, up to you. Might take a while for that to happen though.)
Currently includes :
Remilia - vampire themed decks
Lina Inverse - decks of mass destruction or heavy damage.
Cirno - Fairies and Ice themed cards. And Sorcerer's Strongbox. Have to have that.
Reimu - Angel decks, with some Sun or religion themed cards.
Yuyuko - reanimator. Might be better for a different character, as it's brutal and not very elegant.
Youmu - Nether Spirit/Ashen Ghoul deck
Junko - Despair themed decks that focus on making the enemy miserable. One of my first decks that evolved a lot over time - loved it but no one wanted to play against it for some reason...I don't get it, playing with empty hands is fun! :lol: (have you ever used Hymn to Tourach on yourself? With this deck I actually did a few times.)

rename the file to .zip.
Attachments
seravaar.txt
(116.5 KiB) Downloaded 97 times
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Re: New quest decks

Postby daitokujibiko » 18 Jul 2017, 12:07

About the AI, I was wondering, maybe it's possible to make something like an [aistrategy] section we could put in our .dck file headers? These would contain hints for how the AI should try to play the deck. That might be easier than trying to generally improve the AI in every concieveable situation. Even some little rules about the order to play cards or what to target would help a lot as you can imagine.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby tojammot » 18 Jul 2017, 12:15

Wait, Seravy, I think I recognize that name. You're that one guy who has something to do with Touhou characters in MUGEN? If so, mad respect.

However, there's already a Remilia quest opponent. She utilizes Warden of the Beyond and exiling cards as a parallel to Flandre Scarlet. Her sister has a permanent destruction deck with Nihilith and Curse of the Cabal.

Other Touhou decks include Kyouko Kasodani (RG Echo with Thick-Skinned Goblin), Suika Ibuki (Mono G Primal Surge deck with lots of permanents), and Kasen Ibaraki (Abzan zoo deck with Siege Rhino). Alice and Marisa (as seen last page) have yet to be implemented.

I suggest you look over the existing quest opponent decks in case you might have thematic overlap (Junko might have similarities with another discard deck, for example). You can view those decks in the main menu, just change the drop-down box to Quest Opponent Decks. Also, I know it's a bit out-there, but try trawling the last 10 or 20 pages just for inspiration/research.

Another suggestion is to remove the cards the AI is unable to play properly for the time being and add suitable replacements instead. You can check which cards are unsuitable for AI play by giving it to the CPU opponent and playing against it. The message will display which cards you can replace for better ones.

Anyway, I'll try to look it over. The descriptions are amusing but opponents for the Main World (which is most of them), their descriptions should instead give a quick summary of their deck. Like "Mono U Fairy deck" for Cirno 3. But that's just how decks are formatted here.

EDIT: Minor nitpick, Junko Enoshima. Since it's easy to confuse her for the OTHER Junko. No wonder I was temporarily confused ("Wait, Junko's gimmick is simple danmaku...").

Agetian wrote:Nice!
I can look into integrating them. I'm not very good with tweaks though, so hopefully someone else can help with that... Would you like to provide avatars for these opponents as well?

And btw, would you like to try anything with HOU-specific mechanics since the set was recently released?

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Yeah, I'll probably wait for Sloth or someone else's criticism before adding it to the SVN.

As for the images, I think I'll do so but I need time to find a suitable image.

daitokujibiko wrote:About the AI, I was wondering, maybe it's possible to make something like an [aistrategy] section we could put in our .dck file headers? These would contain hints for how the AI should try to play the deck. That might be easier than trying to generally improve the AI in every concieveable situation. Even some little rules about the order to play cards or what to target would help a lot as you can imagine.
Deck-specific AI bias would be nifty, though I don't know how disastrous it would be to actually implement.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 18 Jul 2017, 14:18

Having a way to specify specific strategic considerations/hints for the AI would be a very nice thing to have. Might expand the metadata for that eventually, yeah. :) I think many decks would benefit from that!

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Re: New quest decks

Postby Seravy » 18 Jul 2017, 15:18

Yes, I'm the guy who makes Touhou characters for Mugen, and Master of Magic mods.

Since these were originally meant to be their own world, I didn't care about duplicate names or strategies. And don't worry, it is Junko Enoshima as the opponent name in the file. At least I hope it is. I uploaded the files "as is" because the world won't be ready any time soon, if ever. Feel free to change any names, descriptions, etc as needed or leave out decks that overlap too much with another opponent.

Having a way to specify specific strategic considerations/hints for the AI would be a very nice thing to have.
Agreed, this is one of the things I'd like to achieve as well...if there is a true need. Knowing myself I'll probably teach the AI to play everything correctly instead.
Like, you can specify to discard enchantments for a replenish deck...but why do that if you can teach the AI to do that if it plays a deck with 3+ copies of Replenish in it. That way it will play the card correctly even if random generated or drafted.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby tojammot » 18 Jul 2017, 23:13

Would make my Solemnity deck work as I can tell the tutor to fetch it and not Phyrexian Unlife or Delaying Shield. Honestly I don't want too mmuch, just specifying AI bias when casting tutors.

Meanwhile, this was originally something for Cirno but...
Ice King 1-2 (Mono U Snow) | Open
Main:
22 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mindstorm Crown
3 Sapphire Medallion
4 Balduvian Conjurer
2 Frost Titan
4 Frost Walker
2 Heidar, Rimewind Master
4 Rimewind Taskmage
4 Wall of Frost
4 Ice Cage
2 Chilling Grasp
2 Crippling Chill
2 Frost Breath
4 Think Twice


EDIT: How do I access Planar Conquest?
Last edited by tojammot on 19 Jul 2017, 04:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New quest decks

Postby Agetian » 19 Jul 2017, 03:08

Planar Conquest is a mode which is currently exclusive to mobile Forge, but it's possible to launch a backport of mobile Forge on desktop (full screen) and play it that way. :) If you're interested, I may look into updating the mentioned backport around the time the next release occurs :)

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Re: New quest decks

Postby tojammot » 05 Sep 2017, 10:42

All I seem to do now is wait for more cards before building anything. Hopefully the new expansion can allow a hard version of the Jack Sparrow quest opponent.

Meanwhile I'm gonna try working on Alucard (the Castlevania one) for WB vampires.

EDIT: Forgot to realize that the expansion isn't fully out yet. My mistake.
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