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Here is a medium Survival of the Fittest deck. It's not as powerful as I thought it would be and any ideas will be helpful:

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[metadata]
Name=Joker 2
DisplayName=Joker
Difficulty=medium
Description=Mono G Survival of the Fittest deck with Squee, Goblin Nabob and Basking Rootwalla
Deck Type=constructed
Icon=
[main]
24 Forest
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Llanowar Mentor
2 Greenseeker
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Roar of the Wurm
1 Brawn
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Bloodghast
3 Gaea's Anthem
1 Asceticism
1 Dense Foliage
1 Spidersilk Armor
1 Naturalize
1 Slice in Twain
1 Exploration
[sideboard]

(and yes I've considered Vengevine, but I leave that for a tier 3 deck)

EDIT: The other madness cards are problematic because the AI won't calculate the mana available.

I wouldn't use Roar of the Wurm at all (you only have three cards that can get it into your graveyard). I would use more cards with ETB abilities. Or possibly creatures with Threshold.

I think the biggest problem with this deck is it doesn't do anything in the first 5 turns of the game. There's no meat out to protect it.

Some suggestions (as long as the AI can use them):
Wall of Blossoms
Masticore
Dawnstrider
Krovikan Horror

If you are considering adding Black to the deck I have some more suggestions.

I'm pretty sure the AI is disabled for a lot of discarding effects, so make sure it's active for the ones you need.

friarsol wrote:I wouldn't use Roar of the Wurm at all (you only have three cards that can get it into your graveyard). I would use more cards with ETB abilities. Or possibly creatures with Threshold.

I think the biggest problem with this deck is it doesn't do anything in the first 5 turns of the game. There's no meat out to protect it.

Some suggestions (as long as the AI can use them):
Wall of Blossoms
Masticore
Dawnstrider
Krovikan Horror

If you are considering adding Black to the deck I have some more suggestions.

I'm pretty sure the AI is disabled for a lot of discarding effects, so make sure it's active for the ones you need.

A) The thing you should note is, that the AI always fetches the biggest creatures first and only fetches if a good discard outlet is at hand (I added SVar:DiscardMe for that reason).
That means that Masticore might stop the line of fetches. The typical turns of play are:

Turn 2 Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman
Turn 3 Discard Squee, Goblin Nabob/Basking Rootwalla to fetch Vengeful Pharaoh, cast something
Turn 4 Discard Vengeful Pharaoh to search for Brawn, cast something

From there on there will always be a Vengeful Pharaoh in the AI's graveyard giving it some good protection. You can't really stop this unless you exile it.

B) Threshold is out of question because the AI's graveyard is empty most of the time.

C) Dawnstrider is a good idea, but in testing the AI used up all of its mana in the first turns.

D) I don't like Wall of Blossoms, because it might cause the AI not to play Survival of the Fittest first.

E) Krovikan Horror is a very good idea (it has synergy with Squee) and i will replace Roar of the Wurm with some copies.

Thank you for the input Sol.

Sloth wrote:A) The thing you should note is, that the AI always fetches the biggest creatures first and only fetches if a good discard outlet is at hand (I added SVar:DiscardMe for that reason).

Ahhh. I guess that makes sense. Is the AI smart enough to discard lands if he thinks there is enough in play? I know at some point, he's less likely to play Land when he thinks there is enough out... If that's the case Dryad Arbor might be worth a look.

This is my latest build of the Survival of the Fittest deck. It's still very slow, but raising the amount of Greenseeker's really helped in fueling the mana hunger. I've tested this deck more than any deck before and it's quite interesting to play against.

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[metadata]
Name=Joker 2
DisplayName=Joker
Difficulty=medium
Description=Mono G Survival of the Fittest deck with Squee, Goblin Nabob and Basking Rootwalla
Deck Type=constructed
Icon=
[main]
25 Forest
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Llanowar Mentor
3 Greenseeker
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Krovikan Horror
1 Brawn
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Bloodghast
3 Gaea's Anthem
1 Asceticism
1 Dense Foliage
1 Spidersilk Armor
2 Exploration
[sideboard]

I have a deck idea, which I tested partly. It depends, though, how the AI interacts with the different cards, making it a bit hard for me to create the deck alone. As far as I am concerned, it should be a very hard deck.
It is a green-black Flourishing Defenses deck:

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4 Flourishing Defenses
4 Midnight Banshee (in combination with Flourishing Defenses, it will recreat the tokens everytime)
4 Phyrexian Hydra (if the Hydra blocks or become blocked by a creature with power of 7, it creates 14 tokens with one Flourishing Defenses!)
3 Coat of Arms (I had in the End 115 116/116 tokens. With one of these. Any questions left? ^^)
4 Demonic Tutor (it should get either Flourishing Defenses or Midnight Banshee)
4 Beseech the Queen (see Tutor)
4 Necroskitter (the revived enemy fallen creatures give even more tokens. . .)
4 Oona's Gatewarden (the AI should not bother to sacrifice them)
4 Kulrath Knight (in combination with Midnight Banshee - nonblack creatures can't attack or block :D)
2 Grim Affliction
4 Plague Stinger (just another Defenseline against the enemy)
2 Incremental Blight (6 -1/-1 counters = 6 tokens at least :D)
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wall of Blossoms (to let him survive long enough)
+ lands

Now some variantions:

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4 Epic Struggle (adding this increases the difficulty of this deck a LOT. They can be taken instead of Coat of Arms)

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3 Venser's Journal +
4 Fecundity (I don't know if the AI is intelligent enough to stop taking cards before getting milled ...)

Mind that I only took cards which I have in my decks, too, so, there could be even better cards. I will take a look at the deck editor.
so, Interested...?

Cards which could be interesting, too:
Blowfly Infestation - getting limitless tokens. It could become a problem, though
Glistening Oil - dunno if the AI knows how to cast it properly
Black Sun's Zenith - doesn't work as good with Midnight Banshee and Necroskitter, otherwise fine
Noxious Hatchling - instant 4 tokens per Defense
Contagion Engine - it can accelerate the Midnight Banshee effect and put counters on black creatures

Nordos wrote:I have a deck idea, which I tested partly. It depends, though, how the AI interacts with the different cards, making it a bit hard for me to create the deck alone. As far as I am concerned, it should be a very hard deck.
It is a green-black Flourishing Defenses deck:

| Open

Code: Select all

4 Flourishing Defenses
4 Midnight Banshee (in combination with Flourishing Defenses, it will recreat the tokens everytime)
4 Phyrexian Hydra (if the Hydra blocks or become blocked by a creature with power of 7, it creates 14 tokens with one Flourishing Defenses!)
3 Coat of Arms (I had in the End 115 116/116 tokens. With one of these. Any questions left? ^^)
4 Demonic Tutor (it should get either Flourishing Defenses or Midnight Banshee)
4 Beseech the Queen (see Tutor)
4 Necroskitter (the revived enemy fallen creatures give even more tokens. . .)
4 Oona's Gatewarden (the AI should not bother to sacrifice them)
4 Kulrath Knight (in combination with Midnight Banshee - nonblack creatures can't attack or block :D)
2 Grim Affliction
4 Plague Stinger (just another Defenseline against the enemy)
2 Incremental Blight (6 -1/-1 counters = 6 tokens at least :D)
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wall of Blossoms (to let him survive long enough)
+ lands

Now some variantions:

Code: Select all

4 Epic Struggle (adding this increases the difficulty of this deck a LOT. They can be taken instead of Coat of Arms)

Code: Select all

3 Venser's Journal +
4 Fecundity (I don't know if the AI is intelligent enough to stop taking cards before getting milled ...)

Mind that I only took cards which I have in my decks, too, so, there could be even better cards. I will take a look at the deck editor.
so, Interested...?

Yes, I think we don't have a deck build around -1/-1 counters yet. We should though.

Comments:
- Sadly we currently can't tell the AI what to search for with Tutors so Demonic Tutor and Beseech the Queen will have to go.
- This means, that the deck can't rely so heavily on Flourishing Defense and Coat of Arms, Epic Struggle and Fecundity along with Venser's Journal won't do enough in this deck.

Possible additions:
- Cards that profit from -1/-1 counters: Crumbling Ashes and Lockjaw Snapper.
- Cards that deal -1/-1 counters: Carnifex Demon, Contagion Clasp, Fevered Convulsions, Gnarled Effigy, (Harbinger of Night), Skinrender, Serrated Arrows, Soul Snuffers, Trigon of Corruption, Contagion Engine, Cultbrand Cinder.
- Maybe you find a use for Deity of Scars.

You can always test your deck by giving it to the AI.

I will try how the AI will play this deck.

I didn't include Crumbling Ashes, because I wanted to let the AI drain the life out of all creatures and not kill them
I did think about Lockjaw Snapper, but I don't know if he would be intelligent enough to sacrifice it.
Dunno if he is intelligent enough to use Carnifex Demon - Contagion Clasp, Fevered Convulsions, Trigon of Corruption, Cultbrand Cinder, Serrated Arrows and Gnarled Effigy cost too much, IMO, Harbinger of Night kills itself, making it more useless then the Midnight Banshee, Skinrender and Soul Snuffer can be useful, too (I myself use Skinrender ), but they may waste the space. Since the AI won't search for the Defenses, it should draw them ...
And Deity of Scars gives two tokens per Defense. Yet it is black and hasn't wither/infect -> it wont help creating more -1/-1 counters ...

I will create the deck and test it.

EDIT: OK, seems that the AI can't play with it

Nordos wrote:EDIT: OK, seems that the AI can't play with it

Don't give up so early. I think at least a medium or hard deck can be build with this. You just have to build a deck that has a lot of both combo parts, so it's very likely that they come together.

On the one side you have:
4 Flourishing Defenses
4 Necroskitter
4 Blowfly Infestation
4 Crumbling Ashes (works very good with Necroskitter and Blowfly Infestation)
4 Kulrath Knight

Then you need cards that deal out -1/-1 counters (and the AI won't hold back):
4 Midnight Banshee
4 Skinrender
4 Glistening Oil
? Grim Affliction (test)
? Incremental Blight (test)
? Noxious Hatchling (test)

It won't be a Flourishing Defenses deck anymore, but a very intersteting deck to play against.

I created a test deck - I only included one Epic Struggle, yet the combination of Flourishig Defenses + Midnigh Banshee bases on it. And it can get easily about 160 Trigger to resolve, if you play the deck by yourself, it can take ages - especially if you have Blowfly Infestation and Midnight Banshee... ^^

4 Necroskitter
4 Midnight Banshee
4 Blowfly Infestation
4 Crumbling Ashes
4 Glistening Oil
4 Phyrexian Hydra
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Flourishing Defenses
1 Oona's Gatewarden
1 Epic Struggle
1 Coat of Arms (has the advantage that the Midnight Banshee wont one-hit the tokens, and helping to power them up)
1 Contagion Engine
2 Mox Emerald
4 Mox Jet (many highcost cards -> a has-to-be)
4 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

60 card decks, ~40% Mana, wins against randoms decks, yet the AI won't use it as a human could.
I thought about adding Harmonize ...

Nordos wrote:I created a test deck - I only included one Epic Struggle, yet the combination of Flourishig Defenses + Midnigh Banshee bases on it. And it can get easily about 160 Trigger to resolve, if you play the deck by yourself, it can take ages - especially if you have Blowfly Infestation and Midnight Banshee... ^^

4 Necroskitter
4 Midnight Banshee
4 Blowfly Infestation
4 Crumbling Ashes
4 Glistening Oil
4 Phyrexian Hydra
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Flourishing Defenses
1 Oona's Gatewarden
1 Epic Struggle
1 Coat of Arms (has the advantage that the Midnight Banshee wont one-hit the tokens, and helping to power them up)
1 Contagion Engine
2 Mox Emerald
4 Mox Jet (many highcost cards -> a has-to-be)
4 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

60 card decks, ~40% Mana, wins against randoms decks, yet the AI won't use it as a human could.
I thought about adding Harmonize ...

Our opponents have all decks that are vintage legal, so Moxen have to be singletons. Twilight Mire and Gaea's Cradle are not usable by the AI (and Gaea's Cradle is generally weak in this deck). Since it doesn't need so much green, basic Swamps are a good choice. The mana courve would better come a little down (replace some copies of Phyrexian Hydra, Coat of Arms and/or Contagion Engine).

And I'm still not sold on Epic Struggle and Coat of Arms. They are both totally reliant on Flourishing Defenses and will do nothing (Epic Struggle) or help your opponent (Coat of Arms) most of the time.

true, Gayas Cradle isn't that useful, since after you got the tokens, you dont need the mana anyway. Didn't know, that only one mox is permitted
Thats why Epic Struggle and Coat of Arms have only one copy - it is more likely to have a Flourishing Defenses combination when drawn. And it is for really long matches, you could say it is the winning card if everything else fails.
Phyrexian Hydra relies on Flourishing Defenses, too, yet it can be a might of its own. For 5 mana a 7/7 creature which can destroy good creatures by blocking/getting blocked.

4 Necroskitter
4 Midnight Banshee
3 Blowfly Infestation
3 Crumbling Ashes
4 Glistening Oil
3 Phyrexian Hydra
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Flourishing Defenses
4 Harmonize
1 Epic Struggle
1 Coat of Arms (has the advantage that the Midnight Banshee wont one-hit the tokens, and helping to power them up)
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet (many highcost cards -> a has-to-be)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
6 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

This one's better?

EDIT:
Heartmender could be a great addition, too

Nordos wrote:true, Gayas Cradle isn't that useful, since after you got the tokens, you dont need the mana anyway. Didn't know, that only one mox is permitted
Thats why Epic Struggle and Coat of Arms have only one copy - it is more likely to have a Flourishing Defenses combination when drawn. And it is for really long matches, you could say it is the winning card if everything else fails.
Phyrexian Hydra relies on Flourishing Defenses, too, yet it can be a might of its own. For 5 mana a 7/7 creature which can destroy good creatures by blocking/getting blocked.

4 Necroskitter
4 Midnight Banshee
3 Blowfly Infestation
3 Crumbling Ashes
4 Glistening Oil
3 Phyrexian Hydra
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Flourishing Defenses
4 Harmonize
1 Epic Struggle
1 Coat of Arms (has the advantage that the Midnight Banshee wont one-hit the tokens, and helping to power them up)
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet (many highcost cards -> a has-to-be)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
6 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

This one's better?

The mana curve actually went up now and I think there aren't enough cards that deal -1/-1 counters anymore.

Nordos wrote:EDIT:
Heartmender could be a great addition, too

Maybe for a different build with Carnifex Demon and Harbinger of Night.

Soma lands can be traded with 4 Birds of Paradise ...
Another Idea is Doubling Season - it would double all tokens when they enter the battlefield and they will double all -1/-1 counter from Midnight Banshee, which would double the tokens once again ...

Nordos wrote:Soma lands can be traded with 4 Birds of Paradise ...
Another Idea is Doubling Season - it would double all tokens when they enter the battlefield and they will double all -1/-1 counter from Midnight Banshee, which would double the tokens once again ...

I just did two test games against the AI. In both games the AI had multiple Blowfly Infestation and Crumbling Ashes in play and since the triggers are mandatory, everytime the AI played a creature (Midnight Banshee and Phyrexian Hydra) the board was wiped after two turns. I will try to implement Melira, Sylvok Outcast , that's what the deck really needs.