What's the best deck in MTG Forge?

[jpb]

What is the best deck in MTG Forge? Must honor rules of MTG, including restricted and banned cards.

[GandoTheBard]

lol well there are alot to pick from...and isnt it a matter of opinion? I mean most of the decks I post win 100% or nearly 100% depending on how bad the draws get.

[DennisBergkamp]

A better question would be, what's the best AI deck in MTGForge? In the hands of the computer, which cards are the most effective?

[mtgrares]

The best (or most annoying) deck for the AI to use is this repulse, blue control type of deck. This deck bounces so many creatures basically it is a game of "can I keep a creature in play?" I'm sure a red land destruction deck would be very annoying to play against also.

Feel free to replace the restricted cards Library of Alexandria and Ancestral Recall with something similar.

This is a very good blue permission deck that the computer can use. This deck is extremely annoying to play against. When playing against this deck, your goal is to keep any creature in play because the computer will bounce everything. Then when you actually get to attack, you have to contend with Wall of Air while Keiga, the Tide Star is probably attacking you.

While the AI is usually very basic and easy to beat, the AI is actually incredibly frustrating when using this deck.

40 Total Cards

8 Creatures
-------------
4x Keiga, the Tide Star
4x Wall of Air

14 Spells
----------
4x Ancestral Recall
2x Boomerang
4x Echoing Truth
4x Repulse

18 Land
--------
15x Island
3x Library of Alexandria

[Kl3p_co.]

Feel free to replace the restricted cards Library of Alexandria and Ancestral Recall with something similar.

Lol?why do you think they are restricted?Maybe because there is absolutely NO similar version?(ok its not that clear with recall,as there is a lot of drawing in mtg, but there rly is NO 2nd and certainly not a 3rd card with librarys abilities in mtg)

[GandoTheBard]

Feel free to replace the restricted cards Library of Alexandria and Ancestral Recall with something similar.

Lol?why do you think they are restricted?Maybe because there is absolutely NO similar version?(ok its not that clear with recall,as there is a lot of drawing in mtg, but there rly is NO 2nd and certainly not a 3rd card with librarys abilities in mtg)

Actually Magus of the Library is a direct clone of the Library ability. But yes the point of restricted cards/banned cards is somewhat lost in playing against MTGForge as it in no way adheres to normal rules of magic anyway.

[Chris H.]

A better question would be, what's the best AI deck in MTGForge? In the hands of the computer, which cards are the most effective?

I have spent a little time in the last several weeks trying to find the answer to your question.

As Gando recently commented on, lands are one of the stumbling blocks. In modifying several of my decks, I find that the computer will only play a deck if the deck has at least 7 Basic Lands. The computer will play a Basic Land once per turn and will alternate the colors.

The computer can effectively play a 3 color deck. Cards that require three of the same color mana should probably be limited to two or one color decks. Land Tax and Kodama's Reach may be ways to get around this limitation.

I replaced enough of the multi lands in my decks with basic lands so that the computer could use several of them. If Rares uses these decks in the Quest mode, then all we would need is several land killer cards to stop these Quest decks. I'm starting to think that the best AI decks in MTGForge will contain only basic lands.

As far as what cards the computer can use effectively, there is so much to observe. I am having fun with the process.

I looked at the source code and discovered that the computer can't use the Demonic Tutor ability of Liliana Vess. On the other hand I was surprised to see the computer use the Memnarch to turn my creatures into artifact creatures and then steal them one by one.

[GandoTheBard]

Yeah the AI's play abilities are rather primitive. Where it excels if it gets the right draws is Tempo and Beats. So give it tempo and beat related cards (hard to block creatures + pump spells (giant growth, overrun etc) + direct damage, maybe some land destruction and bounce. I call dd tempo for this case because it helps speed up the goal of player life = 0) and forget about anything else. Sadly this means Quest mode may be a harder game to design since the point of such a game is to make a challenge for the player to overcome and to provide variety of play. Ideally also you will eventually want multiple difficulty levels for Quest mode to be really robust. I still really endorse the idea as it will break the monotony of yet another draft or constructed format game.

I think my Gobbog deck qualifies as one of the better decks for the AI to play with currently.

[Chris H.]

Sadly this means Quest mode may be a harder game to design since the point of such a game is to make a challenge for the player to overcome and to provide variety of play.

Yeah, it gives us something new to think about. I'm sure there are some interesting theme decks that could be implemented.

I think my Gobbog deck qualifies as one of the better decks for the AI to play with currently.

I can can see it now:

"Your quest is to locate and defeat Gando the Goblin Chieftain!"

[GandoTheBard]

Roflmao...well take heart...this white weenie I just developed has some potential. It dies to Gobbog but that is because Problack/red doesnt exist. If it did ww would roll over Gobbog.

[mtgrares]

As Gando recently commented on, lands are one of the stumbling blocks. In modifying several of my decks, I find that the computer will only play a deck if the deck has at least 7 Basic Lands. The computer will play a Basic Land once per turn and will alternate the colors.

I tuned the computer for sealed deck and I presumed it would be 2 colors for better or worse. I guess my code presumes basic lands, which could cause some errors. See GameAction.newGame() which calls some other methods in GameAction that smooth the AI's mana curve.

As far as what cards the computer can use effectively, there is so much to observe. I am having fun with the process.

I looked at the source code and discovered that the computer can't use the Demonic Tutor ability of Liliana Vess. On the other hand I was surprised to see the computer use the Memnarch to turn my creatures into artifact creatures and then steal them one by one.

I loved Memnarch so I made sure he was as nasty as he could be. On the planeswalker's, I usually just let the AI use 2 of the abilities, so Liliana Vess tries to build up to her "super". Looking at the code is the best way to see if the computer can use an ability, but I know that it takes time.