Bug/issue discussion thread

[Tarigg]

Hi!

My post was deleted, so I'll try to think of everuthing I was saying...

Again, congratulations for the great work. I thought of some things that might be useful, and here are my suggestions:

_ I kind of miss the score numbers on the cells. Why not put them back? Maybe they could appear only when the mouse pointer is above?...

_ I noticed that, with some custom wardands I made, the AI sometimes doesn't spawn anything at all.

_ Maybe it would be nice to have the total of an attack roll appear somewhere on the right.

_ Would it be possible somehow the move the pieces with a drag and dropt? I supposed it is hard to program (I have absolutely no idea), but is it feasible?

That's all for now... Keep up the good work!

[telengard]

Hi!

My post was deleted, so I'll try to think of everuthing I was saying...

Again, congratulations for the great work. I thought of some things that might be useful, and here are my suggestions:

_ I kind of miss the score numbers on the cells. Why not put them back? Maybe they could appear only when the mouse pointer is above?...

I plan to have them there, it's just been a question of graphics. I'm not savvy enough to extract the scoring cell graphics from the DB map. I could always just put some text up there.

_ I noticed that, with some custom wardands I made, the AI sometimes doesn't spawn anything at all.

Did your warbands have any mini's w/ Appease? The next release will allow you to bump up the AI's "skill" which can result in better play at the cost of taking a little longer to make decisions.

_ Maybe it would be nice to have the total of an attack roll appear somewhere on the right.

Hmm, I could show the amount of damage for an attack, but given all the ways that the combat damage can be modified (Ragestrike, Crit, and lots of other abilities)
maybe it would make sense to show some stats about the attack, like the # of blades and amount of damage. I'll put this on the TODO list.

In the meantime, the event window should show how much damage left there is to assign as well as blades (if any).

IIRC you also mentioned spicing up that area. I really want to do this, but like I mentioned, my graphics skills aren't very good. Have you seen the console version of the program yet?

_ Would it be possible somehow the move the pieces with a drag and dropt? I supposed it is hard to program (I have absolutely no idea), but is it feasible?

That's all for now... Keep up the good work!

Yes, and I plan on adding that where I can. Certain actions this will work well (spawning, shifting, and others). After this next release I will probably add that.

Great suggestions, thanks!

~telengard

[Tarigg]

Hello, and sorry for this late response.


No, I didn't use any "Appease" ability, and still there are turns where the AI dones't spawn at all, although it has the points for it. Is there a possibility to "record" a game with some kind of log file that I could send you, so that you see for yourself?

I also made some testing with random generated warbands (with Dreamblade Supreme), and I stumbled upon a few bugs:

_ First and foremost, some of the figurines sometimes disappear and don't reappear, although the AI seems to consider them to be here. It happened a Rainforest Shaman after a disruption, a figurine (I forgot which one) after a lure and another one after a Scare by a Voodoo Manipulator. You don't see them on the game board, but the AI gives you the possibility to move them (and curiously, each possibility appears 2 times in the right panel)...

_ I also noticed (but I'm not sure) that the software gives a player a conquest point when the Runner with Scissors is banished, which it shouldn't. I think it also gives the owner of the RwS 2 Spawn points (again, it shouldn't).

_ Conversely, I think a creature destroyed by a Venom ability should give Conquest and Spawn points, which the software doesn't.

_ Sightless Eunuch is misspelled "Sightless Eunich".

_ The ability of the Mask Dancer says "Attract Bloodcut", but it should simply read "Attract".

_ The text of the Bloated Parasite should read "Fight Passion +2 - While there is a local Passion enemy, this creature has +2 power.".

_ I noticed that the Spawn points bonus given by the Rainforest Shaman does not appear on the right panel... Any possibility of changing that? It would be clearer...


That's all for now. I'll continue the testing and let you know if I find something... In the meantime, thanks again for this great software!

[telengard]

Hello, and sorry for this late response.


No, I didn't use any "Appease" ability, and still there are turns where the AI dones't spawn at all, although it has the points for it. Is there a possibility to "record" a game with some kind of log file that I could send you, so that you see for yourself?

Hiya Tarigg! This issue has been nagging me for a while and I am still working on it. The issue has to do with the type of AI I am using, I need to tweak the evaluation function a little more. Yes, I have the ability to log all kinds of things, but that's usually just in my DEBUG builds because it kills performance.
I'm considering adding minimal logging though of moves made by the human player and AI so I can sorta re-create what is going on. It doesn't impact performance too much.

I also made some testing with random generated warbands (with Dreamblade Supreme), and I stumbled upon a few bugs:

_ First and foremost, some of the figurines sometimes disappear and don't reappear, although the AI seems to consider them to be here. It happened a Rainforest Shaman after a disruption, a figurine (I forgot which one) after a lure and another one after a Scare by a Voodoo Manipulator. You don't see them on the game board, but the AI gives you the possibility to move them (and curiously, each possibility appears 2 times in the right panel)...

Yep, someone else had reported this, and I've seen it once. This was with the GUI version, correct? Seems to happen after your first game. I'll have this one fixed soon. The way around it is to just restart the program after every game. It's a GUI bug of some sort since the engine still knows about the pieces.

_ I also noticed (but I'm not sure) that the software gives a player a conquest point when the Runner with Scissors is banished, which it shouldn't. I think it also gives the owner of the RwS 2 Spawn points (again, it shouldn't).

_ Conversely, I think a creature destroyed by a Venom ability should give Conquest and Spawn points, which the software doesn't.

I will fix these. (NOTE: I just confirmed the Runner w/ Scissors Regenerate awarding conquest && spawn bug and am fixing it).

_ Sightless Eunuch is misspelled "Sightless Eunich".

_ The ability of the Mask Dancer says "Attract Bloodcut", but it should simply read "Attract".

_ The text of the Bloated Parasite should read "Fight Passion +2 - While there is a local Passion enemy, this creature has +2 power.".

Good catches! Stuff like this is hard for me to spot. The last one though is intentional (sorta) on my part. In later sets the "While there is a local <aspect/lineage>" changed to the symbol being shown as a prerequisite to the ability, in this case {P}. A similar example would be Lady of the Flies:

http://tinyurl.com/yazjl44

Her ability prior to that icon being used would have probably read something like "While there is a local Passion enemy, you may exchange the position of target enemy with target nonlocal ally."

Rather than having two separate ways to do the same functional thing, I went with the newer one.
So the Bloated Parasite has a conditional Fight +2 ability, the precondition being {P}.
I'm up for changing the text though in the XML file if it would help (and not seem redundant).

_ I noticed that the Spawn points bonus given by the Rainforest Shaman does not appear on the right panel... Any possibility of changing that? It would be clearer...

That's a tough one. Energize is a triggered ability so you don't actually get the bonus spawn until that trigger (i.e. the beginning of your spawn phase). So technically speaking you don't have them yet, just the potential. If it were a static ability it would be reflected at all times.

That's all for now. I'll continue the testing and let you know if I find something... In the meantime, thanks again for this great software!

My pleasure, thanks for the great bug reports. I'll have them addressed for the next release (including hopefully the not spawning sometimes AI hehe).

~telengard

[telengard]

Just a note to say that I fixed Regenerate but I can't seem to make the Venom bug happen. I assign enough Venom to destroy during combat and it is handled correctly as far as bonus spawn/conquest. Do you recall if the Venom assignment was during combat or outside of combat?

I'll keep trying to make it happen. While in there I noticed a little bug egg which I just fixed. Venom was not being cleared when a piece left play, so if you managed to have something leave play w/ Venom, get it back in play that same phase, it would have kept all the Venom. I'm waiting to hear back from the DB rules adviser on that one since there is no mention of clearing of Venom except for the end of the phase. I assume it is like damage though in that it clears when it leaves play.

~telengard

[Tarigg]

Hi there!

Yes, it probably happened in a second or third game with the GUI version... But you seem to have this issue under control, so that's ok.

OK for Bloated Parasite.

As for the Rainforest Shaman, I noticed the the Spawn Point bonus doesn't appear at all, even when the ability is triggered, also it is taken into account. Maybe it could simply be added to the visible points? The same flaw arises with Heartsblood Temple.

Frankly, I don't remember when the Venom bug happened... But maybe I got carried away and saw a bug where there wasn't any. Sorry... But if it allowed you to spot another bug, then it's ok.

Three other bug/issues I stumbled upon:

_ When the Ooktolok uses Warpstrike, the owner of the fig gets to choose the target. But it should be the opponent...

_ I noticed that, when you roll a lot of dice, the results line is sometimes too long, so that you don't see the result of all the dice. But maybe it is a resolution issue (I'm in 1200 x 800).

_ I like to do the testing with random generated warbands. But very often, the software doesn't recognize all the figs, although their names seem correct to me... I copy/paste the list from an Excel sheet, so maybe there is some Fonts issue I am not aware of... I don't know. Here are two warbands I cannot load because of this. Maybe you can tell me what is wrong?

# Sealed silver band
Barbstrider
Bad Kitty
Bad Kitty
Zombie Enforcer
Knight Of Pain And Sorrow
Silhouette
Walking Worms
Walking Worms
Jack Of Blades
Pale Horse
Butcher
Horrid Poltergeist
Night Queen
Carrion Spiker
Ekkyon Wayfarer
Dreadmorph Ogre

# Sealed gold band
Book Of Nothing
Darkheart Cottage
Doomsinger
Ego Cannibal
Gun-Possessed Killer
Pick Pick
Spellbound Scissors
Windborne Blademaster
Cyclopean Sprite
Decapitrix
Nevret Warmaster
Skinless
Drakesnail
Freakazoid
Gutsoup Golem
Tattooed Squashbug

I'll keep in touch!

Tarigg

[telengard]

Hi there!

Yes, it probably happened in a second or third game with the GUI version... But you seem to have this issue under control, so that's ok.

OK for Bloated Parasite.

Yep, I'm working on that one and it will be fixed in the next release (I'm hoping to do the release this weekend).

As for the Rainforest Shaman, I noticed the the Spawn Point bonus doesn't appear at all, even when the ability is triggered, also it is taken into account. Maybe it could simply be added to the visible points? The same flaw arises with Heartsblood Temple.

Hmm, not sure how to do something like this. What happens is at the beginning of your spawn phase the amount from Energize is added to the 2 initiative values.

I did just test the Energize ability and with initiative rolls of 3 and 4 (7 total) and 2 Rainforest Shamans in the center cell I ended up with 9 points. I guess maybe I could do something to show it is modified in some way, maybe by changing its color?

EDIT: Just re-read your post and it sounds like you weren't getting the bonus spawn points. Was the Rainforest Shaman in a scoring cell? You should see in the events window a message about it triggering and you should see it reflected on the left side of the '/' which is current spawn points (for that spawn phase) and bonus points on the right side(which you'll get your *next* spawn phase).

I tested out Heartsblood Temple, and in the center cell (not that it matters) with a local enemy I got the extra 2 spawn points. (7 + 1 for a Rainforest Shamen + 2 for the Heartsblood Temple for a total of 10)

Frankly, I don't remember when the Venom bug happened... But maybe I got carried away and saw a bug where there wasn't any. Sorry... But if it allowed you to spot another bug, then it's ok.

Three other bug/issues I stumbled upon:

_ When the Ooktolok uses Warpstrike, the owner of the fig gets to choose the target. But it should be the opponent...

Fixed. Will be in the next release. And yep, the Venom stuff had a little bug in there. Hard to make it happen, but it was still there.

_ I noticed that, when you roll a lot of dice, the results line is sometimes too long, so that you don't see the result of all the dice. But maybe it is a resolution issue (I'm in 1200 x 800).

Hmm, I'll look into handling that. It's more based on font size than resolution. Hehe, you must be playing a Passion warband.

_ I like to do the testing with random generated warbands. But very often, the software doesn't recognize all the figs, although their names seem correct to me... I copy/paste the list from an Excel sheet, so maybe there is some Fonts issue I am not aware of... I don't know. Here are two warbands I cannot load because of this. Maybe you can tell me what is wrong?

<snip warbands>

I'll keep in touch!

Tarigg

Yep, this one is due to spelling. The program you are running uses "Of" and I use "of". So I use "Book of Nothing" and the program uses "Book Of Nothing". I will add case insensitive checking for the next release so this will work without you having to do anything.

Thanks for all the bug reports!!

~telengard

[Tarigg]

Hi!

EDIT: Just re-read your post and it sounds like you weren't getting the bonus spawn points.

No, actually, there is no problem with that. The points are there. What buggers me is that, as a player, you don't see them on the right panel until after you spawn something. Let's say you have a Shaman and a Temple, so they give you 3 Spawn Points. The dice show 4 and 3. Then, the software will show only 7 Spawn Points, and not 10. Still, in the list of the figs you can spawn, creatures with 10 Spawn Points will appear... So the issue I am pointing at is just that you don't see the points, although they are there. Something similar happened with the Walking Worms : I sacrificed it but the points became available only after my next spawn (but in the same Spawn phase).

Hmm, I'll look into handling that. It's more based on font size than resolution. Hehe, you must be playing a Passion warband.

It does happen, yes.

Yep, this one is due to spelling. The program you are running uses "Of" and I use "of". So I use "Book of Nothing" and the program uses "Book Of Nothing". I will add case insensitive checking for the next release so this will work without you having to do anything.

Alright, I should have thought of that! Now it works perfectly.

Another few things I noticed:

_ I had a warband with 3 Omen Locusts. I tried to spawn 2 in the same phase and couldn't (although I had enough Spawn Points). I could spawn the first, but not the second one. Maybe it has something to do with their Clone 1 ability.

_ The Raise ability of the software allows you to put a fig from the graveyard to the board, but according to the rules, the fig should go in the reserves.

_ When I use the Vortex ability, the figs are not moved immediately, but right after the next action is trigerred (by double-clicking in the right panel). It's a bit confusing, but I suppose it has to do with the structure of the program... Any way to change that, so that the figs are moved right away?

_ The Tatooed Squashbug appears as a Fear fig, although it is a Madness fig.

_ Besides, I tried to use its Shapechange ability, but it doesn't work avery time. I think it only works when you spawn a location in its cell (which is, of course, useless). I'll try again and let you know.

I had another idea for the software, which could be very useful when counting the damage on the figs in order to use a Warpstrike (or something else) wisely. I really don't know whether it's difficult to program or not (I really have no clue at all), but a possible solution and a plus for the software would be the possibility to see a small box appearing when you put the mouse pointer over a fig. The box would display a summary of the current damage/venom, etc, points the fig has, so that you would know which fig you should harm next. You could probably put some other infos there, such as the picture of the fig, or just its abilities... What do you think?

Can't wait to download the next version of your soft!

Regards,

Tarigg

[telengard]

Hi!

EDIT: Just re-read your post and it sounds like you weren't getting the bonus spawn points.

No, actually, there is no problem with that. The points are there. What buggers me is that, as a player, you don't see them on the right panel until after you spawn something. Let's say you have a Shaman and a Temple, so they give you 3 Spawn Points. The dice show 4 and 3. Then, the software will show only 7 Spawn Points, and not 10. Still, in the list of the figs you can spawn, creatures with 10 Spawn Points will appear... So the issue I am pointing at is just that you don't see the points, although they are there. Something similar happened with the Walking Worms : I sacrificed it but the points became available only after my next spawn (but in the same Spawn phase).

Hiya Tarigg,

Ah, I see now. This one and the Vortex one mentioned below happen w/ the GUI version. It works correctly now.

Hmm, I'll look into handling that. It's more based on font size than resolution. Hehe, you must be playing a Passion warband.

It does happen, yes.

Yep, this one is due to spelling. The program you are running uses "Of" and I use "of". So I use "Book of Nothing" and the program uses "Book Of Nothing". I will add case insensitive checking for the next release so this will work without you having to do anything.

Alright, I should have thought of that! Now it works perfectly.

Another few things I noticed:

_ I had a warband with 3 Omen Locusts. I tried to spawn 2 in the same phase and couldn't (although I had enough Spawn Points). I could spawn the first, but not the second one. Maybe it has something to do with their Clone 1 ability.

Fixed. Wasn't initializing the effects' spawn amount so it was adding huge random amounts to its spawn cost hehe.

_ The Raise ability of the software allows you to put a fig from the graveyard to the board, but according to the rules, the fig should go in the reserves.

This one is also now fixed. Although I wasn't able to get it to do what you described. It just didn't work at all for me. The fix should also fix any of the abilities that involve moving a piece into a non-dreamscape zone.

_ When I use the Vortex ability, the figs are not moved immediately, but right after the next action is trigerred (by double-clicking in the right panel). It's a bit confusing, but I suppose it has to do with the structure of the program... Any way to change that, so that the figs are moved right away?

Mentioned this one above. It has to do w/ events coming from the engine and not always triggering a re-draw. The console version does not suffer from this due to not being multithreaded. It's now fixed.

_ The Tatooed Squashbug appears as a Fear fig, although it is a Madness fig.

Fixed

_ Besides, I tried to use its Shapechange ability, but it doesn't work avery time. I think it only works when you spawn a location in its cell (which is, of course, useless). I'll try again and let you know.

This is fixed now too. The behavior you saw was because of 2 bugs. 1 was not checking for creatures only, the other was checking local instead of non-local.

Great catch!

I had another idea for the software, which could be very useful when counting the damage on the figs in order to use a Warpstrike (or something else) wisely. I really don't know whether it's difficult to program or not (I really have no clue at all), but a possible solution and a plus for the software would be the possibility to see a small box appearing when you put the mouse pointer over a fig. The box would display a summary of the current damage/venom, etc, points the fig has, so that you would know which fig you should harm next. You could probably put some other infos there, such as the picture of the fig, or just its abilities... What do you think?

It is a very good idea. The console version actually does this exact thing. If you hit <Tab> it will show you details about the currently selected piece like how much damage is assigned, how much venom etc. I'll have to think about how to do this with the GUI.
I have put it in my TODO list.

Can't wait to download the next version of your soft!

Regards,

Tarigg

Awesome, thanks for the bug reports. New version should be out soon with lots of bug fixes.

~telengard

[melkor75]

I'm going to post some bugs i found as soon as i noticed them:

- Witching hour set: Menacing Brute is missing
- Spawn Phase. 6+5 rolled = 11 SP. Opponent spawns Cannibal pariah (2F) + Skull Punk (2FP) + Butcher (6F) which is not possible as all cost 12 SP.

mm75

[melkor75]

I'm going to post some bugs i found as soon as i noticed them:

- Witching hour set: Menacing Brute is missing
- Spawn Phase. 6+5 rolled = 11 SP. Opponent spawns Cannibal pariah (2F) + Skull Punk (2FP) + Butcher (6F) which is not possible as all cost 12 SP.
- Spawn Phase. Again on a double aspect piece ... something Wrong. Bewitching Assassin, after the spawn above is spawned at 7 cost instead of 8 (it need 7FPP),

mm75

[melkor75]

Some others...

- Again Bewitching Assassin: Ambush doesn't trigger.
- Grave Spiker: i noticed AI not that good here. It was spawned at 2nd turn of the match for example or once ... Ai spawned it and appease the same piece, not that good.
- General AI. Dunnow if u noticed that, but it's quite "easy" to win. So far i've never lost a single match, even with "less efficent" warbands than AI...

Anyway, great job as always
mm75

[telengard]

Some others...

- Again Bewitching Assassin: Ambush doesn't trigger.
- Grave Spiker: i noticed AI not that good here. It was spawned at 2nd turn of the match for example or once ... Ai spawned it and appease the same piece, not that good.
- General AI. Dunnow if u noticed that, but it's quite "easy" to win. So far i've never lost a single match, even with "less efficent" warbands than AI...

Anyway, great job as always
mm75

Thanks for the reports! I fixed the Ambush issue (she had Charge 5, whoops). Charge wouldn't work so great w/ Lure hehe. If you want to use her right now just change ABILITY_TYPE_CHARGE to ABILITY_TYPE_AMBUSH in her .dxp file.

Menacing Brute (along w/ Earwig and I think one other one) are not implemented from Witching Hour. The abilities for those pieces require some heavy duty engine changes, especially the Strongarm ability. Someday I'll support it though. On the good side, I've implemented more Twilight pieces which will be in the next release!

As for the general AI, you must be a good player. I have lost to the AI a few times. I usually let it play chessmaster while I play some random warband.

If you have a fast computer you can up the depth it will search to (ctrl-c to change parameters). Be careful though, a very high number could end up with the computer taking WAY too long to think.

I'm investigating the aspect cost issues. I had a NOTE to investigate that as I thought I saw it while testing, glad to hear it's not my imagination. I did try your example of Cannibal Pariah, Skull Punk, and Butcher w/ 11 starting spawn points and I was not allowed to spawn the Butcher... so still investigating. Just to be sure, check the rules.conf file and make sure "spawn_at_start_of_spawn_phase" is 0, also did your opponent have anything in the graveyard?

~telengard

[melkor75]

As for the general AI, you must be a good player.

lol, I've been playing DB for years, good but not that good

Just to be sure, check the rules.conf file and make sure "spawn_at_start_of_spawn_phase" is 0, also did your opponent have anything in the graveyard?

Value is 0 indeed and my opponent didn't have any mini in the graveyard

mm75

[melkor75]

An update on Bewitching ... i changed charge to ambush and it works but the game rolls 6 dice I saw in the dxp file the amount is set correctly to 5 anyway ...

Again multi-aspect pieces don't work well as i continue experiencing the issues above. Just to double check for you i'm attaching the 2 random warbands i'm testing:

Skull Punk
Cannibal Pariah
Grave Spiker
Sabrefang Warrior
Alluring Succubus
Butcher
Infernal Beauty
Bewitching Assassin
Sun Slayer
Infernal Screamer
Deathwish Dragon
Infernal Bomber
Mr. Fixit
Ekkyon Wayfarer
Deathwind Priest
Serpopard

Madhouse
Acolyte of Pain
Roach Mother
Walking Worms
Jack-in-the-Box
Chain Servant
Triskelion
Yazrael, Dreadfiend
Ropestrung Scarecrow
Buzzkill Clown
Freakazoid
Painsmash
Boogeyman
Aggrocopter
Droning Damselfly
Dreadmorph Ogre

mm75