Forge version 1.3.10

[Sloth]

However, there's still at least one outstanding problem. AI casting Man-o'-War still leads to an infinite loop + crash. This wasn't the case in the earlier versions, so this is a new bug. Here's the dump, again trimmed because it wouldn't post otherwise. How to reproduce it - just give the AI (who needs to have the required mana sources, of course) Man-o'-War and watch what happens.

Fixed! Thanks Rumble.

Also, here's a bug of rather major severity as it might affect a significant number of cards: cards with AB Destroy/DestroyAll, at least the ones the effect of which triggers after the card goes to graveyard for one reason or another (Wall of Corpses, Abu Ja'far etc.), do not work correctly (the "destroy" ability does not resolve correctly and the card that is supposed to be destroyed does not get destroyed).

This bug has been around for more than a year.

[Agetian]

@ Sloth: Well, it may be an old bug, but it's serious enough I think, and at a certain point we have to do something about it because it makes certain cards useless. Would it be difficult to fix? Unfortunately, it definitely lies outside my area of expertise in Forge code so I'm probably not the best person to look into it.

- Agetian

[RumbleBBU]

However, there's still at least one outstanding problem. AI casting Man-o'-War still leads to an infinite loop + crash. This wasn't the case in the earlier versions, so this is a new bug. Here's the dump, again trimmed because it wouldn't post otherwise. How to reproduce it - just give the AI (who needs to have the required mana sources, of course) Man-o'-War and watch what happens.

Fixed! Thanks Rumble.

Excellent, great work, Sloth!

...of course, while you were fixing that, I was busy making adjustments to some Jamuraa decks to work around certain crash-prone cards. One of the cards I was replacing with some other cards was Man-o'-War so I needed to roll back that change ASAP.

By the way, the same problem could also affect AEther Adept. When examining the potential stand-ins for the buggy Man-o'-War, I experimented with the much-more-modern AEther Adept, which did more or less the same thing, and got a similar crash when the AI played it.

[friarsol]

@ Sloth: Well, it may be an old bug, but it's serious enough I think, and at a certain point we have to do something about it because it makes certain cards useless. Would it be difficult to fix? Unfortunately, it definitely lies outside my area of expertise in Forge code so I'm probably not the best person to look into it.

I think what he was saying is, it shouldn't hold up this release, just because it's still there. It's not like it was newly introduced and causing major issues. I don't think it's as serious as you think it is. If it were easy enough to fix, it probably would be fixed already.

[Agetian]

@ Sol: I agree it shouldn't hold up this release, but I don't agree that it should be discarded or forgotten about simply because it's been there forever and, as such, things are good as they are - personally I regard any rule-breaking game bug as serious enough. I mean, it may not be serious for a person playing with cards that are unaffected, but for a player going e.g. through a quest mode where these cards may be valuable or deemed useful within the context of a certain chosen game format it could be game-breaking and frustrating, especially since more than one card appears to be affected by the bug (and even if there are only five cards like that that would be affected within a certain group of sets, it might turn out to be bad enough). It does seem like the majority of the current Forge users and/or devs seem to somewhat prefer modern formats (and modern format cards appear to be somewhat better supported and less buggy judging by my very subjective experience), but as a person who likes to play with old cards (which you can see from my dev targets which were mostly related to cards coming from older sets like CoPs, Nafs Asp, Leviathan, early splits, etc.) I can say that setting up a format that enforces older cards of certain sets only to see a certain percentage of those cards you were relying upon is buggy and the bug is discarded as an old issue that isn't serious enough to be looked into could be frustrating. Still, I don't think it's a critical or essential bug to fix before 1.3.10, it's definitely not a blocker or anything, but it is bad enough to be put on the agenda somewhere for whoever may be good enough with the relevant portion of the Forge code. Just my $0.02 though.

- Agetian

[friarsol]

@ Sol: I agree it shouldn't hold up this release, but I don't agree that it should be discarded or forgotten about simply because it's been there forever and, as such, things are good as they are - personally I regard any rule-breaking game bug as serious enough.

I don't believe I said anything about discarding it or forgetting it. And you touch on later why I don't think it's "serious"

We have >12000 cards. Maybe 5-10 are affected by this bug, which is definitely annoying, and periodically can lose you a duel. It doesn't affect all users, it doesn't prevent gameplay. It doesn't crash. I'd label that a "Medium" level bug. Should it get fixed? Absolutely, but this is a thread about the next release, and by no means should a bug that could already be listed as a known issue necessarily prevent the next release with lots of other good bug fixes from coming out.

[Agetian]

Well, I don't believe I said anything about it being a blocker bug, I just said it might be of major enough severity because I had no idea how many cards it affected and it seemed systematic enough. I agree with your latest post, Sol.

- Agetian