Card Development Questions

[moomarc]

As for the Saproling Burst, I do not believe it can be scripted right now. The tokens would have to have a staticability that would check the SB for its fade counters, etc. What if you have two or more. I believe you would need a way to reference the SB in script.

I was hoping you'd say that there was already a way to do it that I'd just missed somehow. Oh well. It'll just have to wait for Card.RememberedHost. I still would love to play around with it even with a hacked solution, so is there any way to make the trigger I attempted work? I want to build my Proliferating Burst deck with Saproling Burst, Contagion Engine and maybe handful of Doubling Season for extra kick.

Edit: Victory! I sorted out the trigger and now the card works as expected! Happiness! The trigger needed to be

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T:Mode$ Always | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | IsPresent$ Creature.IsRemembered | Static$ True | Execute$ TrigAnimate
SVar:TrigAnimate:DB$ AnimateAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.IsRemembered | Power$ X | Toughness$ X | Permanent$ True
SVar:X:Count$CardCounters.FADE   /*This count svar used for initial token generation as well

I've posted the full script in the half implemented cards thread. I'd appreciate some extra testing, but as far as I can tell this hacked version works exactly as it should.Only thing missing is that the tokens don't have the ability description because I can't figure out how to add text only (seeing as it should never be needed by properly scripted cards). Fixed.

Edit 2: I fixed a problem where the saproling tokens would survive with their existing p/t if the had indestructible when SB left the battlefield. Now it will set the p/t of remembered tokens to 0 as part of its LTB effect. Last thing that I'm not sure about is the rulings on what happens to the fade counters on the SB if it gets Blink 'd. My understanding is that all counters would be removed, then as it comes back into play it would come into play with 7 fade counters again. In addition to this the SP should no longer remember the tokens created by it or visa-versa

Rule 403.4 | Open

403.4. Whenever a permanent enters the battlefield, it becomes a new object and has no relationship to any previous permanent represented by the same card, except for the cases listed in rule 400.7. (This is also true for any objects entering any zone.)

[Sloth]

Mindstorm Crown and Daru Spiritualist should be fine.

Do we have a way to switch off the intervening if clause for Mindstorm Crown?

[friarsol]

Mindstorm Crown and Daru Spiritualist should be fine.

Do we have a way to switch off the intervening if clause for Mindstorm Crown?

There is no intervening if. It's two conditionals.

[friarsol]

Edit: Victory! I sorted out the trigger and now the card works as expected! Happiness! The trigger needed to be

Code: Select all

T:Mode$ Always | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | IsPresent$ Creature.IsRemembered | Static$ True | Execute$ TrigAnimate
SVar:TrigAnimate:DB$ AnimateAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.IsRemembered | Power$ X | Toughness$ X | Permanent$ True
SVar:X:Count$CardCounters.FADE   /*This count svar used for initial token generation as well

Marc, why aren't you using Static Pumping for this instead of what you are doing? Generate the tokens as 0/0s then Statically Pump them based on the Fade Counters. I like this method much better than an Always trigger. It's still not quite right, but it's closer.

[Sloth]

Mindstorm Crown and Daru Spiritualist should be fine.

Do we have a way to switch off the intervening if clause for Mindstorm Crown?

There is no intervening if. It's two conditionals.

How can we script these conditions?

My idea was to script two Phase triggers with opposing requirements checks. This way it will always trigger, the problem is the intervening if clause that checks requirements again.

[moomarc]

Edit: Victory! I sorted out the trigger and now the card works as expected! Happiness! The trigger needed to be

Code: Select all

T:Mode$ Always | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | IsPresent$ Creature.IsRemembered | Static$ True | Execute$ TrigAnimate
SVar:TrigAnimate:DB$ AnimateAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.IsRemembered | Power$ X | Toughness$ X | Permanent$ True
SVar:X:Count$CardCounters.FADE   /*This count svar used for initial token generation as well

Marc, why aren't you using Static Pumping for this instead of what you are doing? Generate the tokens as 0/0s then Statically Pump them based on the Fade Counters. I like this method much better than an Always trigger. It's still not quite right, but it's closer.

Its just lack of experience mostly. All the cards I'd done so far were predominantly trigger systems so I was just used to doing it that way. I'll look into the static pump and maybe I can get it commit-worthy (not sure how you handle hacked solutions even if they react like they're meant to). I'll get back with a new version soon.

On a side note I've committed Tooth and Claw to svn. There was nothing obscure so I felt comfortable committing without review here first.

On another point, I was trying Stone Idol Trap but don't think it's scriptable yet. The delayed trigger is "Exile it at the beginning of your next end step" and we only seem to support "Sacrifice at the beginning of the end step". Here's the base script so if anyone feels the urge to add the new delayed trigger (or if its already there and I don't know the correct phrasing) they can finish it off (should just need to replace the delayed trigger):

Stone Idol Trap | Open

Name:Stone Idol Trap
ManaCost:5 R
Types:Instant Trap
Text:CARDNAME costs 1 less to cast for each attacking creature.
A:SP$ Token | Cost$ 5 R | TokenAmount$ 1 | TokenName$ Construct | TokenTypes$ Artifact,Creature,Construct | TokenOwner$ You | TokenColors$ Colorless | TokenPower$ 6 | TokenToughness$ 12 | TokenKeywords$ Trample<>At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice CARDNAME. | SpellDescription$ Put a 6/12 colorless Construct artifact creature token with trample onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of your next end step.
K:CostChange:Player:Less:X:Self:All:All:NoSpecial
SVar:X:Count$Valid Creature.attacking
SVar:Rarity:Rare
End

[Hellfish]

Wouldn't giving the token a trigger to exile itself work?

EDIT: OR, failing that, remembering the token and having a DelayedTrigger subability on Stone Idol Trap itself?

[moomarc]

Firstly, here's the new script for Saproling Burst with the static pump. Thanks Sol. Definitely cleaner this way. It was a good script to learn some backroads though. It all works according to the rulings etc except that the pump is on the host rather than token. Let me know if it can be committed like this.

Saproling Burst | Open

Name:Saproling Burst
ManaCost:4 G
Types:Enchantment
Text:no text
K:Fading:7
A:AB$ Token | Cost$ SubCounter<1/FADE> | TokenAmount$ 1 | TokenName$ Saproling | TokenTypes$ Creature,Saproling | TokenOwner$ You | TokenImage$ G X X Saproling | TokenColors$ Green | TokenPower$ 0 | TokenToughness$ 0 | RememberTokens$ True | TokenKeywords$ This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of fade counters on CARDNAME. | SpellDescription$ Put a green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield. It has "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of fade counters on CARDNAME."
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Creature.IsRemembered | AddPower$ X | AddToughness$ X | Description$ HIDDEN It has "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of fade counters on Saproling Burst."
SVar:X:Count$CardCounters.FADE
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Battlefield | Destination$ Any | Execute$ DestroyRemembered | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME leaves the battlefield, destroy all tokens put onto the battlefield with CARDNAME. They can't be regenerated.
SVar:DestroyRemembered:DB$DestroyAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.IsRemembered | NoRegen$ True | SubAbility$ DBCleanUp
SVar:DBCleanUp:DB$Cleanup | ClearRemembered$ True
SVar:RemAIDeck:True
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/saproling_burst.jpg
SetInfo:NMS|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ne/113.jpg
Oracle:Fading 7 (This enchantment enters the battlefield with seven fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can't, sacrifice it.)\nRemove a fade counter from Saproling Burst: Put a green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield. It has "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of fade counters on Saproling Burst."\nWhen Saproling Burst leaves the battlefield, destroy all tokens put onto the battlefield with Saproling Burst. They can't be regenerated.
End

Wouldn't giving the token a trigger to exile itself work? OR, failing that, remembering the token and having a DelayedTrigger subability on Stone Idol Trap itself?

That was the general idea but I looked for sample code in the wrong cards. None of the ones I used (eg Balduvian Dead) had the actual DelayedTrigger. They instead call the specific phrase from TokenKeywords. So I'll have a look at finishing this then. Thanks Hellfish.

[friarsol]

How can we script these conditions?

My idea was to script two Phase triggers with opposing requirements checks. This way it will always trigger, the problem is the intervening if clause that checks requirements again.

Relooking at this card, the biggest issue here is the verbiage "at the beginning of this turn"

12/1/2004: Mindstorm Crown's ability doesn't have an "intervening 'if' clause." It always goes onto the stack at the start of your upkeep.
12/1/2004: Mindstorm Crown cares about the number of cards in your hand at the time the turn started, not as the ability resolves. So if you have more than one Crown on the battlefield and no cards in your hand at the start of the turn, you draw a card for each Crown.

Well, it's just one trigger that always triggers. Basically at the beginning of your turn something would store how many cards you have. Then Mindstorm Crown would trigger, when it resolves it'll have a primary ability which draws you a card if the recorded hand size is 0. And a secondary ability which deals you damage if that recorded number is greater than zero.

[Hellfish]

Might wanna remove the TokenKeywords$ parameter from Saproling Burst there, Marc, since it's no longer used and could potentially cause shenanigans if one somehow got FADE tokens on the tokens.

Also, Muraganda Petroglyphs rears it's ugly head again, didn't think about this before.. The tokens from this version would gain +2/+2 even though they should have a static ability.

[moomarc]

Might wanna remove the TokenKeywords$ parameter from Saproling Burst there, Marc, since it's no longer used and could potentially cause shenanigans if one somehow got FADE tokens on the tokens.

Also, Muraganda Petroglyphs rears it's ugly head again, didn't think about this before.. The tokens from this version would gain +2/+2 even though they should have a static ability.

Thanks for looking through it, but neither of these is actually an issue. The TokenKeywords just adds the text, not the X:Count for the fade counters. It does however have the benefit of duping Murganda Petroglyphs into thinking that it has an ability. Use this deck list to test most problem scenarios.

Saproling Burst test | Open

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[metadata]
Name=TestSapBurst
Deck Type=Constructed
[main]
1 Allay|EXO
1 Darksteel Plate|MBS
1 Doubling Season|RAV
1 Eldrazi Monument|ZEN
1 Glorious Anthem|USG
1 Muraganda Petroglyphs|FUT
2 Saproling Burst|NMS
[sideboard]

And maybe add an Oblivion Ring for further testing. You'll just have to use Dev mode to generate mana, and to add FADE counters to one of the tokens seeing as we don't seem to support any cards that move unspecified counters.

[Hellfish]

Oh, awesome!
Then Gutter Grime should be scriptable the same way!

[moomarc]

Oh, awesome!
Then Gutter Grime should be scriptable the same way!

Does that mean Saproling Burst can be committed? Are there no other corner cases anyone can think of that might show this up as a hack?

Wouldn't giving the token a trigger to exile itself work? OR, failing that, remembering the token and having a DelayedTrigger subability on Stone Idol Trap itself?

That was the general idea but I looked for sample code in the wrong cards. None of the ones I used (eg Balduvian Dead) had the actual DelayedTrigger. They instead call the specific phrase from TokenKeywords. So I'll have a look at finishing this then. Thanks Hellfish.

I just can't seem to get the trigger to work Can someone please look it over and see what I'm doing wrong. Does DelayedTrigger not support ValidPlayer perhaps, because otherwise its virtually identical to other cards.

Stone Idol Trap | Open

Code: Select all

Name:Stone Idol Trap
ManaCost:5 R
Types:Instant Trap
Text:CARDNAME costs 1 less to cast for each attacking creature.
A:SP$ Token | Cost$ 5 R | TokenAmount$ 1 | TokenName$ Construct | TokenTypes$ Artifact,Creature,Construct | TokenOwner$ You | TokenColors$ Colorless | TokenPower$ 6 | TokenToughness$ 12 |  RememberTokens$ True | SubAbilities$ DelTrig | TokenKeywords$ Trample | SpellDescription$ Put a 6/12 colorless Construct artifact creature token with trample onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of your next end step.
SVar:DelTrig:DB$DelayedTrigger | Mode$ Phase | Phase$ End of Turn | ValidPlayer$ You | Execute$ TrigExile | TriggerDescription$ Exile Construct at the beginning of your next end step.
SVar:TrigExile:AB$ChangeZone | Cost$ 0 | Origin$ Battlefield | Destination$ Exile | ValidCards$ Creature.IsRemembered
K:CostChange:Player:Less:X:Self:All:All:NoSpecial
SVar:X:Count$Valid Creature.attacking
SVar:Rarity:Rare
End

[Hellfish]

EDIT:I don't foresee any big problems with that Saproling Burst, but then again I am like the Lionel Hutz of Rules Lawyers so *shrug*

I got Stone Idol Trap working with a few changes:

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Name:Stone Idol Trap
ManaCost:5 R
Types:Instant Trap
Text:CARDNAME costs 1 less to cast for each attacking creature.
A:SP$ Token | Cost$ 5 R | TokenAmount$ 1 | TokenName$ Construct | TokenTypes$ Artifact,Creature,Construct | TokenOwner$ You | TokenColors$ Colorless | TokenPower$ 6 | TokenToughness$ 12 |  RememberTokens$ True | SubAbility$ DelTrig | TokenKeywords$ Trample | SpellDescription$ Put a 6/12 colorless Construct artifact creature token with trample onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of your next end step.
SVar:DelTrig:DB$DelayedTrigger | Mode$ Phase | Phase$ End of Turn | ValidPlayer$ You | Execute$ TrigExile | TriggerDescription$ Exile Construct at the beginning of your next end step.
SVar:TrigExile:AB$ChangeZoneAll | Cost$ 0 | Origin$ Battlefield | Destination$ Exile | ChangeType$ Creature.IsRemembered
K:CostChange:Player:Less:X:Self:All:All:NoSpecial
SVar:X:Count$Valid Creature.attacking
SVar:Rarity:Rare
End


The SubAbility parameter was misspelled (as SubAbilities) causing the DelayedTrigger DB never to be called. Also, I changed the ChangeZone to ChangeZoneAll in case of Doubling Season / Parallel Lives.

[moomarc]

Thanks so much!

Maybe you could help me with another. Also having a problem with the trigger on Basalt Golem. It works fine if SacValid has just Creature, but it has to be limited to the creature that actually blocked Basalt Golem. I've tried Creature.TriggeredBlocker, .BlockingSource and a few others. I also tried using Defined$ TriggeredBlocker (as used with Abomination etc) in conjunction with PlayerTurn$ True, but that didn't help at all. So could someone please let me know what the Creature.LIMITATION should be.

Basalt Golem | Open

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Name:Basalt Golem
ManaCost:5
Types:Artifact Creature Golem
Text:CARDNAME can't be blocked by artifact creatures.
PT:2/4
K:CantBeBlockedBy Artifact.Creature
T:Mode$ Blocks | ValidCard$ Creature | ValidBlocked$ Card.Self | DelayedTrigger$ DelTrigBlocker | TriggerDescription$ Whenever CARDNAME becomes blocked by a creature, that creature's controller sacrifices it at end of combat. If the player does, he or she puts a 0/2 colorless Wall artifact creature token with defender onto the battlefield.
SVar:DelTrigBlocker:Mode$ Phase | Phase$ EndCombat | ValidPlayer$ Each | Execute$ TrigSacBlocker | TriggerDescription$ Sacrifice blocking creature at end of combat. If the player does, he or she puts a 0/2 colorless Wall artifact creature token with defender onto the battlefield.
SVar:TrigSacBlocker:AB$Sacrifice | Cost$ 0 | Defined$ Opponent | SacValid$ Creature.TriggeredBlocker | SacMessage$ creature that blocked CARDNAME | SubAbility$ SVar=MakeToken
SVar:MakeToken:DB$Token | TokenImage$ C 0 2 Wall | TokenName$ Wall | TokenColors$ Colorless | TokenTypes$ Artifact,Creature,Wall | TokenPower$ 0 | TokenToughness$ 2 | TokenOwner$ Opponent | TokenAmount$ 1 | TokenKeywords$ Defender
SVar:Rarity:Uncommon
End