MTG Forge multiplayer development? Flash port?

by **Pyromancer** » 03 Jul 2009, 02:47

Hello all,

I've just gotten in to MTG forge, and it is by far the nicest looking and smoothest mtg application I have seen, and I am really stoked that it's around.

That said, I'm sure this has been brought up before, but a quick search of these forums didn't bring up any results - I am wondering about multiplayer development. Has any work been done in this field? I'd really like to be able to play over the internet, but even simple LAN capabilities would be really neat. I realize that this is a pretty big task, especially in java (or at least I assume it is, my java experience isn't huge). If there's some work being done there, I'd love to jump in and see if I can make it happen. I'm a full time web developer, and although I don't have a ton of extra time on my hands, I'd love to see this thing go multiplayer, and can always use a personal project to work on when work is slow or stressful.
My only qualms with jumping in and building it from the ground up is, like I said, I'm not a java ninja. I suspect this would be pretty difficult to create, and If anyone has played with strategies for how it would be achieved, I'd love to hear them.

I figured that as this is my first post, I wouldn't clog up the forums with another thread, although maybe it should be broken out, but here's question 2:
Actionscript 3.0 is basically java nowadays, and I imagine many of the classes that forge uses could be substituted with flash versions. I'm also bringing this into the picture because I AM a actionscript ninja, and think this could be a really neat direction to take it, a purely online version. Cardpools could be community projects, and this would allow for expansions like user ratings, opponent matching when your buddies are too busy to play a game of mtg, and countless other cool ideas.
So the question, again, is has anyone thought about this? Anyone tried? Maybe someone out there has a good reason for me not to grab the source and start porting it over?

Lastly, I'd just like to figure out where this project stands with WOTC, and if any of the above mentioned ideas haven't happened because of legal issues. I could imagine the online version being pretty un-cool with wizards, especially if it used art, but we may figure out a way around that, maybe an AIR/Flash hybrid or something, so the images aren't stored on a server... basically if someone had a good idea of what's not allowed, it would be helpful.
I would love to get the flash version going, bur would probably have to keep it under wraps, or only distribute it for personal hosts, to avoid legal issues. No card pools, no ratings, as these would require it to be "public", which, if I understand correctly, is where the legal line is REALLY drawn.

I guess that sums up my novel of a post, thanks in advance for your ideas and help!

by **silly freak** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:38

i think there's a good reason for both issues you brought up, and it can be summarized by stating that forge's architecture is not neatly separated.
a multiplayer version is surely not easy to do because, forge's AI is very, very deep in the code. I think such a version would only make sense if there are real players in the architecture, and not the hardcoded references to either AI or human.
a flash port, besides the multiplayer problem might also be hard. i'm not very familiar with flash or AS 3, but also the GUI is strongly interweaved with the engine. porting the GUI is probably a big problem, because the GUI would have to be flash after all.
additionally, the external files used by mtgforge come to mind. you'd have to trace all the occurences of these and replace them with whatever is appropriate in flash

i hope I don't seem pessimistic, i just wanted to answer that question. maybe it's just not worth the effort

by **frwololo** » 21 Jul 2009, 05:22

For Network game against an human there are other applications that would be a better alternative than MTGForge. Incantus comes to mind of course, but even MWS if you don't care about the rules enforcement mechanisms.

As far as flash is concerned, a port of forge would probably not make sense, although recently a java applet version was made available to play from your browser (not sure it's still up though...).
But the main concern is of course the use of copyrighted contents...

So I agree with Silly Freak, for both suggestions (flash/network) probably not worth the effort.

If I were to make a card game with Flash, I would just stay away from WotC's stuff and create my own game, just to avoid legal trouble. But then, it wouldn't be as successful, and in that case what's the point, eh? :mrgreen:

by **MageKing17** » 21 Jul 2009, 05:24

frwololo wrote:Incantus comes to mind

You should probably wait, we've got a lot of work on the to-do list since the M10 changes came out.

by **mtgrares** » 21 Jul 2009, 19:30

Incantus lets you play against another player over the Internet and it enforces all of the rules (it also has a nice user interface).

Lastly, I'd just like to figure out where this project stands with WOTC, and if any of the above mentioned ideas haven't happened because of legal issues.

Well I have gotten one cease and desist letter. I changed hosting servers and the public name for MTG Forge is CardFactory, which is the name that is listed on my Google Project page. The cease and desist letter didn't like the name "MTG Forge" so that is why the public name is different. I'm sure Wizards could send another cease and desist letter but I would just change servers, so biggie.