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Puzzle Mode

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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby PrinzMurmel » 07 Nov 2017, 14:36

kevlahnota wrote:
donKixot1 wrote:I can't solve any puzzle :( help me, for example, first Demo puzzle, please!
for the demo puzzle, target opponent Gurmag Angler with Tendrils of Corruption using 3 blue mana and 1 black mana, let it resolve (it gets 4 damage), then use 2 black mana for X on Crypt Rats ability, while the ability is on stack, Use 1 black mana for X on Crypt Rats again, last in first out ruling, the 1 damage will resolve killing Crypt Rats, Young Wolf, and opponent Gurmag Angler, Undying triggers returning it to battlefield with a +1/+1 counter, then 2 damage on stack resolve leaving your Gurmag Angler alive killing opponent Young Wolf, then go to declare attack phase and attack opponent with your Gurmag Angler, since he has 5 life and you have 2 life, you win...
I really like the puzzles, but I think the demo is too hard as introduction. I wasn't aware I could use the stack in that way, guess many players would have the same problem (I even checked the manual for a description after I read this solution, but found none).
I hope most of them can be solved without using such special mechanics :mrgreen:
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby PrinzMurmel » 11 Nov 2017, 15:00

Don't know if somebody already had the idea but it would be nice to be able to see somewhere which of the puzzles I already solved ;)
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby PrinzMurmel » 11 Nov 2017, 15:12

Another complaint about puzzle toughness #-o I spent a lot of time trying to solve Pauper Puzzle #30 - Land Ho! Which is supposed to be 'easy' :lol: While I found it interesting to experiment with generating lots of mana with the cards in play, I still have no clue how to eventually get past 1000 defenders and inflict 1000 damage points..

Maybe it would be a good idea to add a bunch of (easy!) demo puzzles introducing essential tricks of game play. This would of course help for the puzzles but at the same time be a great training for the matches themselves :D
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby friarsol » 11 Nov 2017, 15:55

PrinzMurmel wrote:Another complaint about puzzle toughness #-o I spent a lot of time trying to solve Pauper Puzzle #30 - Land Ho! Which is supposed to be 'easy' :lol: While I found it interesting to experiment with generating lots of mana with the cards in play, I still have no clue how to eventually get past 1000 defenders and inflict 1000 damage points..
We don't actually develop the puzzles, they come from other sources and they are the ones that determine the difficulty level.

Maybe it would be a good idea to add a bunch of (easy!) demo puzzles introducing essential tricks of game play. This would of course help for the puzzles but at the same time be a great training for the matches themselves :D
Yea there's been some talk of having a "tutorial" of sorts. Using the puzzle mode, but it hasn't come together yet.
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Ikeda » 18 Nov 2017, 11:51

Maybe it would be a good idea to add a bunch of (easy!) demo puzzles introducing essential tricks of game play. This would of course help for the puzzles but at the same time be a great training for the matches themselves :D
This got me thinking. Some strategies do exist for solving M:tG puzzles. For each of these strategies, it might be possible to produce an easy puzzle that highlights it.

I've put together an easy (I hope) "tutorial" puzzle here, which more or less reflects this approach:
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forge_tutorial01.zip
Proposed Forge Puzzle Tutorial
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Agetian » 21 Nov 2017, 19:08

A very nice idea, Ikeda! I added your tutorial puzzle #01 upstream. Will be nice if you come up with some more, I think (if you'd like) :)

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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Ikeda » 24 Nov 2017, 12:38

I'll look into it. I'm thinking that a total of three tutorial puzzles might work, with each one reflecting a different strategy. The ones that come to mind are:

- Ask why the cards are relevant. (This was covered in the tutorial puzzle I proposed.)
- Count your mana - this can be a clue as to which spells you should cast, or how many times you should activate an ability.
- Look for a win method. Do you have any evasion available? Direct damage? Can you mill your opponent to death?

Any thoughts, though? Or better suggestions for strategies to highlight?
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Xitax » 25 Nov 2017, 00:40

Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 122915 - Burn, Baby, Burn
I have a couple of problems getting this set up. Clone sort of works but: user is prompted to choose a different creature to copy, only works if you choose "no" when prompted for replacement effect. Runed Halo names Lightning Bolt. I went back through the post history but didn't see the proper formatting.
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Agetian » 04 Dec 2017, 05:32

Thanks, Xitax! I added PC_122915 upstream with the modifications necessary to make Runed Halo work correctly. The Clone quirk is currently documented in the puzzle description, may be addressed at a later date (will probably need some rework to make it possible to avoid automatic processing of ETB effects in game states for cards which may need that kind of treatment).

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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Xitax » 10 Dec 2017, 19:40

Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 011916 - Better than One - two opponents, not doable ATM.
Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 012616 - Sucker Punch - sort of works. It only wants to cast the first effect in "aiprecast". I tried a bunch of different things but it wouldn't do both.
Tricky to get set up, might want to remember this line to make a creature change sides w/o untapping:
aiprecast=Grab the Reins:DBGainControl->422;
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Agetian » 11 Dec 2017, 14:50

Thanks for the contribution, Xitax! :) I'll look into integrating it upstream. Can you please clarify what kind of effect you're trying to produce that currently doesn't work? (what is the expected behavior and what is the behavior that you currently get?) In the debugger I see that both effects (separated via ";") are detected by the game, so I'd need a bit more detail to understand what exactly doesn't work...

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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Xitax » 11 Dec 2017, 18:09

Only the first effect listed in the duo fires. In the attached, only the change owner effect fires. If you swap the order, then only the "can't block" effect fires.
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Agetian » 14 Dec 2017, 05:23

Xitax wrote:Only the first effect listed in the duo fires. In the attached, only the change owner effect fires. If you swap the order, then only the "can't block" effect fires.
Ok, I'll try to look into it soon! Thanks!

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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Xitax » 17 Dec 2017, 03:15

Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 020216 - Zookeeper
Has the same issue with casting only the first item in "humanprecast". I guess it's a bug with the main program.
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Re: Puzzle Mode

Postby Xitax » 17 Dec 2017, 20:31

Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 020816 - And If You Should Fall : I replaced Raiding Party (not Forgeable) with Battle Strain. Raiding Party is a red herring since it can't be targeted by Fell the Mighty.

Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 021616 - Old Artists Never Die : works.

Perplexing Chimera (GatheringMagic.com) 022416 - He Who Hesitates : AI doesn't block optimally, but there's still enough puzzle to go with.
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